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Subject: For $olitaire rss

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Kenny VenOsdel
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So I was thinking today, "What is it that the boardgame community really needs?" The obvious answer came to me right away: A solo variant for For Sale! So here you go world, a For Sale variant that works, IMO, very well and maintains the feel and play of the original game.

This variant will use all 30 cards. DO NOT DISCARD ANY.

This is not a make-the-highest-score-you-can variant. You will play against a robot player. Since I currently live across an ocean from my fiancee, my main gaming partner, and I want to play with her I have named the robot "Jessica."

Start by shuffling both decks of cards. Take 16 coins for yourself and make a separate pile of 3 coins for Jessica. Jessica's coins are not spent, they represent what her bid will be for any given round. The game plays in 2 phases, buying property and selling property, with 10 rounds of play for each.

For the buy phase turn over 3 property cards per round. Jessica's bid is always however many coins she has, starting at 3. You must decide between 3 options, either bid above Jessica by 1, match her bid, or bid nothing (pass).

1. Bid above: If you outbid Jessica you pay your money to the bank and take the highest property card. Jessica receives the second highest and the lowest is discarded. Increase Jessica's bid by 1. (add a coin to her stack)

2. Match bid: If you match Jessica's bid you pay your money to the bank and take the second highest property card. Jessica receives the highest card and her bid stays the same. The lowest card is discarded.

3. Pass: If you pass you don't pay anything to the bank. Take the lowest value card and give Jessica the highest value card. Decrease Jessica's bid by 1 and discard the middle value card.

After 10 rounds of buying comes the sell phase. Turn over 3 checks per round. Choose one of your properties and place it face up near you. Shuffle Jessica's properties and turn over two of them. Compare your property's value to both of Jessica's properties, there are 3 possible results:

1. Your card is the highest: Discard your property and take the highest value check, awesome. Jessica discards her lowest value property and takes the second highest check. Return Jessica's other property to her deck and shuffle for her. The third check is always discarded.

2. Your card is the lowest: Take the lowest value check, lame, but don't discard your property. Jessica discards her highest value card for the highest value check. Put your property from this round into Jessica's deck and discard her other property. (Basically discard both of Jessica's properties, give her your crappy property)

3. Your card is in between: Discard your card for the middle value check. Discard Jessica's highest value card for the best check. Return Jessica's unused check to her deck.

[EDIT] On the final round of the sell phase Jessica will only have one card left. Whoever is the highest gets the best card, the other one gets the second best.

At the end of the game count the points from both of your decks of checks. Add one point for every unused coin you have. Highest score wins!

[EDIT] Had my first tie-game last night. I guess a good tie breaker would be if Jessica has less than 3 coins in her bid pile (her start amount) you win the tie.

Have fun!
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Kenny VenOsdel
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Re: Solitaire Variant - Probably Pointless but it Works Well
I have played 5 times after thinking this up. I took notes on the cards in each deck every round to see how everything ended up. Usually the average value of the properties I had was 17-17.5 with one round at 18.4. Jessica's average value property was 18-19, a little better than mine.

The games were all pretty close though. I lost 3 of them by 4 points or less and 1 by 7 points. I had one win which was by a whopping 12 points, sweet. The round I won my average property was 18.4 but Jessica's was 19.2.

The game lasted about 15 minutes each time, with my book keeping and calculations included. I actually liked it quite a bit. There was interesting decisions to be made regarding how to manipulate Jessica's bid and lots of potential for well thought out decisions. The mechanism for adjusting Jessica's hand when selling properties is what really makes that work quite well. Since she has the bonus of never taking the worst property or check it works as a good equalizer to dump your crap cards on her if you have the worst property out there.

I'm quite proud of this variant and I hope you enjoy it as well! Let me know your thoughts please.
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Kenny VenOsdel
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Re: Solitaire Variant - Probably Pointless but it Works Well
aaxiom wrote:
Excellent job! Thank you for sharing this with us, and I hope your time apart from your loved one is brief.


Thanks! Our time apart has been going on since January unfortunately but is coming to an end in about a week and a half! I'm really looking forward to it.
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Jeremiah Lee
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Re: Solitaire Variant - Probably Pointless but it Works Well
Sounds interesting. I'd have never thought of creating a solo variant for this game, but perhaps I'll get the chance to play it sometime.

Thanks
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Kenny VenOsdel
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Re: Solitaire Variant - I am addicted to this
I had a thought today after winning the first round against Jessica. Can I win if I just pass each bid? It seems like it might be possible since I would then have 16 points from left over money and also due to the "catch up" mechanic of Jessica taking my card when she beats me with both of hers. I was a little worried that it would be possible to win since that would make the game mostly luck dependent and kill my enthusiasm for it. (considering that i only win 1 out of 4 or so I don't believe it is)

I gave it two goes. After the third round Jessica's bid is at zero so I can take the middle card for most of the rounds for free, excellent. After the first try I counted up my score and I had 96 points. This is about how much I normally have so I was pretty disappointed. Then I checked Jessica's score and it was 109! Ouch. I wasn't satisfied yet though so I tried it again and my final score was 81 to Jessica's 109 again. My curiosity satisfied I gave up the foolish venture of trying to remain with 16 coins.
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Re: Solitaire Variant - I am addicted to this
Very cool solitaire version!

I'm a little confused though about this:

kvenosdel wrote:

2. Your card is the lowest: Take the lowest value check, lame, but don't discard your property. Jessica discards her highest value card for the highest value check. Put your property from this round into Jessica's deck and discard her other property. (Basically discard both of Jessica's properties, give her your crappy property)


Why not just discard yours and have her keep her lowest?

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Re: Solitaire Variant - I am addicted to this
Hope you don't mind, but I did an implementation of your rules here:

BGG mobile site for iPhone, iPod Touch,iPad, Android phones & tablets

It works in most web browsers and mobile devices.
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Kenny VenOsdel
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Re: Solitaire Variant - I am addicted to this
monteslu wrote:
Very cool solitaire version!

I'm a little confused though about this:

kvenosdel wrote:

2. Your card is the lowest: Take the lowest value check, lame, but don't discard your property. Jessica discards her highest value card for the highest value check. Put your property from this round into Jessica's deck and discard her other property. (Basically discard both of Jessica's properties, give her your crappy property)


Why not just discard yours and have her keep her lowest?



Well that might work, I honestly didn't try that even though it seemed like an obvious solution. My reasoning was that Jessica never takes the lowest value card on the table. This means that often she ends up with an already stronger hand than you. This was a way to give you some more decisions on what to play that can weaken her hand and give you a better chance to catch up.

For example. If there are 3 fairly equal cards on the table, or maybe even like a 15, 9, and 8 and you know Jessica still has a lot of high cards you can play your lowest card so that Jessica will lose two of hers (hopefully high ones) and replace them with a card that is lower than all of yours. There are times when it doesn't matter, like if you play a 5, she plays a 6 and a 30; but I find that it really gives you more good options when deciding what house to bid.

Like I said, the other way is more straightforward, but when I was thinking this up it seemed necessary to give you some way to weaken her hand since it was by default stronger than yours. It may not be necessary, but I still usually win 1 out 4 games so I think it is! If you play it that way though (with Jessica just keeping her lowest) let me know how it works out!
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Re: Solitaire Variant - I am addicted to this
monteslu wrote:
Hope you don't mind, but I did an implementation of your rules here:

BGG mobile site for iPhone, iPod Touch,iPad, Android phones & tablets

It works in most web browsers and mobile devices.


modest, honored!
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Re: Solitaire Variant - I am addicted to this
kvenosdel wrote:
monteslu wrote:
Very cool solitaire version!

I'm a little confused though about this:

kvenosdel wrote:

2. Your card is the lowest: Take the lowest value check, lame, but don't discard your property. Jessica discards her highest value card for the highest value check. Put your property from this round into Jessica's deck and discard her other property. (Basically discard both of Jessica's properties, give her your crappy property)


Why not just discard yours and have her keep her lowest?



Well that might work, I honestly didn't try that even though it seemed like an obvious solution. My reasoning was that Jessica never takes the lowest value card on the table. This means that often she ends up with an already stronger hand than you. This was a way to give you some more decisions on what to play that can weaken her hand and give you a better chance to catch up.

For example. If there are 3 fairly equal cards on the table, or maybe even like a 15, 9, and 8 and you know Jessica still has a lot of high cards you can play your lowest card so that Jessica will lose two of hers (hopefully high ones) and replace them with a card that is lower than all of yours. There are times when it doesn't matter, like if you play a 5, she plays a 6 and a 30; but I find that it really gives you more good options when deciding what house to bid.

Like I said, the other way is more straightforward, but when I was thinking this up it seemed necessary to give you some way to weaken her hand since it was by default stronger than yours. It may not be necessary, but I still usually win 1 out 4 games so I think it is! If you play it that way though (with Jessica just keeping her lowest) let me know how it works out!


That works fine. I went with this rule for my computer version.

In fact, I'm losing way more than I'm winning as is.

Thanks again for this variant!
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Siegfried Steurer
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Re: Solitaire Variant - I am addicted to this
Hi there,

I would like to try this variant, but unfortunately:

kvenosdel wrote:
This variant will use all 30 cards. DO NOT DISCARD ANY.


My (german) version of this game has just 2x20 cards (1-20 billion).

Any possibility to play this variant nevertheless?

ty & all the best
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Kenny VenOsdel
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Re: Solitaire Variant - I am addicted to this
It would still work, the only difference would be in the amount of rounds you play, the starting bid, and the amount of cash you start with. You would have to play with 18 cards only, which means 6 rounds instead of 10. I don't have the cards to test it since it only goes to 15 thousand on my version but I'll give some recommendations for adjustment and you can try it from there and fiddle with it if need be.

Start by discarding two each of property and check cards. This will give you 18 cards to play with for each phase and the game will go for 6 rounds.

I would try starting "Jessica's" bid at 2 and give yourself 9 or 10 cash. Starting with 16 with my version gives you 1.6 coins per round and 9 or 10 is close to that.

Other than that it should all play the same. Give it a shot and let me know. If it's too easy, increase Jessica's bid to 2. If its too hard then increase your starting cash by 2. For a frame of reference on difficulty, I typically win one game out of every 4.

Good luck!
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Re: Solitaire Variant - I am addicted to this
kvenosdel wrote:
It would still work, the only difference would be in the amount of rounds you play, the starting bid, and the amount of cash you start with. You would have to play with 18 cards only, which means 6 rounds instead of 10. I don't have the cards to test it since it only goes to 15 thousand on my version but I'll give some recommendations for adjustment and you can try it from there and fiddle with it if need be.

Start by discarding two each of property and check cards. This will give you 18 cards to play with for each phase and the game will go for 6 rounds.

I would try starting "Jessica's" bid at 2 and give yourself 9 or 10 cash. Starting with 16 with my version gives you 1.6 coins per round and 9 or 10 is close to that.

Other than that it should all play the same. Give it a shot and let me know. If it's too easy, increase Jessica's bid to 2. If its too hard then increase your starting cash by 2. For a frame of reference on difficulty, I typically win one game out of every 4.

Good luck!


Thank you very much.

I just had five plays:

Game 1, starting with 10. After round 1 I had some 10+ (I always will state the differences here as I didnt write down the exact values) in value of buildings, and in the end I somehow managed to win by 20+ and thought well, that was way to easy. Lucky me I decided not to raise the starting bid, unlucky me I didnt remember later what I did right that game as it stayed my only success ...

Game 2, starting with 9. Jessica had 20+ in building-value after round one, and there was nothing I could do, that was also the margin by which she finished me off.

Game 3, back to 10 as starting capital. By now I also tried to make increased use of the "pass"-option in Round 1. Again, in the end she had houses 20+ my value, but at least I could cut back the margin to an about 10-point-loss.

Game 4, again starting with 10. Again, she won the first round clearly, and I managed to get back to lose by 5.

Game 5, starting with 10, and this time winning round one by 20+, with this "trick": Passing the first two rounds (not losing to much as the value was quite even), her bid got down to "zero", which made me grab the last 4 most valuable houses and winning round 1 by 20+ for the first time.

Till that time I thought that round 1 made all the difference and was certain of victory, but I learned that lesson too: Losing by about 15 points in the end!

Man, its really tough that she never gets to take that lowest value check. Almost all 6 rounds, it was something like 12 - 10 - 2 or the like ... so even my tactic of "giving" her my 2 lowest value cards at the start didnt pay off. The last 4 rounds saw my 20, 19, 16 & 15 billion $ buildings go for the highest bid - which was not at all their value, and worse - see above.


So, very interestning variant, esp. since the two times two "missing" cards give you something to think too (where's that 20? :-)) ...

Thanks again
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Kenny VenOsdel
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Re: Solitaire Variant - I am addicted to this
Gibmaatsuki wrote:
kvenosdel wrote:
It would still work, the only difference would be in the amount of rounds you play, the starting bid, and the amount of cash you start with. You would have to play with 18 cards only, which means 6 rounds instead of 10. I don't have the cards to test it since it only goes to 15 thousand on my version but I'll give some recommendations for adjustment and you can try it from there and fiddle with it if need be.

Start by discarding two each of property and check cards. This will give you 18 cards to play with for each phase and the game will go for 6 rounds.

I would try starting "Jessica's" bid at 2 and give yourself 9 or 10 cash. Starting with 16 with my version gives you 1.6 coins per round and 9 or 10 is close to that.

Other than that it should all play the same. Give it a shot and let me know. If it's too easy, increase Jessica's bid to 2. If its too hard then increase your starting cash by 2. For a frame of reference on difficulty, I typically win one game out of every 4.

Good luck!


Thank you very much.

I just had five plays:

Game 1, starting with 10. After round 1 I had some 10+ (I always will state the differences here as I didnt write down the exact values) in value of buildings, and in the end I somehow managed to win by 20+ and thought well, that was way to easy. Lucky me I decided not to raise the starting bid, unlucky me I didnt remember later what I did right that game as it stayed my only success ...

Game 2, starting with 9. Jessica had 20+ in building-value after round one, and there was nothing I could do, that was also the margin by which she finished me off.

Game 3, back to 10 as starting capital. By now I also tried to make increased use of the "pass"-option in Round 1. Again, in the end she had houses 20+ my value, but at least I could cut back the margin to an about 10-point-loss.

Game 4, again starting with 10. Again, she won the first round clearly, and I managed to get back to lose by 5.

Game 5, starting with 10, and this time winning round one by 20+, with this "trick": Passing the first two rounds (not losing to much as the value was quite even), her bid got down to "zero", which made me grab the last 4 most valuable houses and winning round 1 by 20+ for the first time.

Till that time I thought that round 1 made all the difference and was certain of victory, but I learned that lesson too: Losing by about 15 points in the end!

Man, its really tough that she never gets to take that lowest value check. Almost all 6 rounds, it was something like 12 - 10 - 2 or the like ... so even my tactic of "giving" her my 2 lowest value cards at the start didnt pay off. The last 4 rounds saw my 20, 19, 16 & 15 billion $ buildings go for the highest bid - which was not at all their value, and worse - see above.


So, very interestning variant, esp. since the two times two "missing" cards give you something to think too (where's that 20? :-)) ...

Thanks again


Thanks for trying it out! I enjoy it too. She is tough to beat though. Never taking the lowest check or the worst house is hard to mitigate but I felt like the checks and balances in it evened out okay. I am currently on a win streak, I won the last 5 in a row. However I don't think that will continue long!
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Re: Solitaire Variant - I am addicted to this
Thinking about ramping up the difficulty but I'm not sure which direction to go. Should I increase Jessica's bid to 4 for a start or should I decrease my cash on hand to 14? I'm thinking I should decrease my cash on hand. Any input?
 
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Re: Solitaire Variant - I am addicted to this
I just finished playing my first game with this solo variant. Before I read through the rules I had trouble imagining how a bidding game like this would work solo, but it's very nice. Thanks!
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Played this variant tonight and enjoyed it. Got trounced too.
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It was just after midnight when I came across this post, but I just had to try it! I ended up losing to "Jessica" $89,000 to $99,00. However, I think this is a great idea and there is definitely some strategy here on how/when to overbid, pass, etc. It kind of reminds me of the choices/strategies encountered in Friday. I really like this and look forward to playing this solo variation more and probably won't give up until I can beat "Jessica" at least a few times! The best part about this is that there is now 1 less 3-player game sitting around on my shelf that doesn't get attention due to the minimum number of players requirement. Thank you for this and keep up the good work. I will report back after more plays...

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shigadeyo wrote:
It was just after midnight when I came across this post, but I just had to try it! I ended up losing to "Jessica" $89,000 to $99,00. However, I think this is a great idea and there is definitely some strategy here on how/when to overbid, pass, etc. It kind of reminds me of the choices/strategies encountered in Friday. I really like this and look forward to playing this solo variation more and probably won't give up until I can beat "Jessica" at least a few times! The best part about this is that there is now 1 less 3-player game sitting around on my shelf that doesn't get attention due to the minimum number of players requirement. Thank you for this and keep up the good work. I will report back after more plays...


Thanks for trying it! After awhile 16 coins may start to seem easy (once you get an idea for the flow). If that happens for you I've found that starting with 14 makes for a much more difficult experience.
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Just tried this solo variant, and it was interesting. I think I didn't like having to reshuffle Jessica's deck every turn in the second phase, since she'd always get a card readded. I didn't like that because it reminded me of what I hated about deckbuilders and took some of the enjoyment out of just flipping and seeing. That said, I thought the challenge was alright. I might see this as a shade more difficult than regular For Sale.

I do question whether the AI could be gamed like what one person above said but otherwise, I think this was a nice homebrew variant. That said, I don't think the shuffling and challenge was my cup of tea.

EDIT: Oh yeah, another issue was counting up the money in the end I think. I'm decent at math but that was a lot of cash to keep track of. I ended up just canceling equal sums between me and Jessica and I won by 6,000. I think if I counted it all out, we had around the order of 60-70-80k each or so? Cant recall.
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NowOrNever88 wrote:
Just tried this solo variant, and it was interesting. I think I didn't like having to reshuffle Jessica's deck every turn in the second phase, since she'd always get a card readded. I didn't like that because it reminded me of what I hated about deckbuilders and took some of the enjoyment out of just flipping and seeing. That said, I thought the challenge was alright. I might see this as a shade more difficult than regular For Sale.

I do question whether the AI could be gamed like what one person above said but otherwise, I think this was a nice homebrew variant. That said, I don't think the shuffling and challenge was my cup of tea.

EDIT: Oh yeah, another issue was counting up the money in the end I think. I'm decent at math but that was a lot of cash to keep track of. I ended up just canceling equal sums between me and Jessica and I won by 6,000. I think if I counted it all out, we had around the order of 60-70-80k each or so? Cant recall.


Yeah, can't say I really like the reshuffling either, but I couldn't think of another way to keep the challenge up there. Potentially you could set her extra card to the side and only reshuffle as needed, but it would only save a few shuffles in the beginning any way.

Thanks for trying it and offering your feedback though!
 
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This is genius, Kenny. You really thought outside the box for some of the mechanics. Call me impressed. Look forward to trying this out tonight when I get home.

Makes me want to see if there could be similar solitaire variant to Turn the Tide -- Dorra's other game I can never get to the table but has similar mechanics.
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Put up another web version of For Solitaire at https://bgg.surge.sh under the "play" link.

Cool thing with this one is if you're running chrome(desktop or android) it will work again even offline after the first time you play. It also should work on other browsers as well if you're online.

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monteslu wrote:
Put up another web version of For Solitaire at https://bgg.surge.sh under the "play" link.

Cool thing with this one is if you're running chrome(desktop or android) it will work again even offline after the first time you play. It also should work on other browsers as well if you're online.



Cool! The only feedback I have is that you should be able to see what the value of Jessica's non-used property is in the selling phase. Otherwise great work and glad you like the game enough to put time into doing this.
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Draob Remag
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I played 2 games as solo last night with this variant and it was AWESOME thumbsup

I lost both games but very close games. I will definitely play more until I win against Jessica. I love this Ven Osdel variant.

Thanks a lot Kenny!
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