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Subject: WINNER -- BGG Zendo, Game 5 rss

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Ken H.
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As always, new players may jump in at any time -- and we could use the help! Find the rules here:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geekjournal.php3?action=viewcom...

And find the events of last turn here:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geekjournal.php3?action=viewcom...

Sadly, the Master has apparently under-estimated the difficulty of the Rule. I assure you it is nothing obscure! Participation has continued to decline, with only 7 active students this round. Maybe I should put up some geek gold, as former Master s2alexan did.

Anyway, despite comments from several students about how confused they are, I remain encouraged by the lists that come in. Perhaps I'm imagining it, but every round I see lists that cause me to think one or more students are barking up the right tree.

Last round's Mondo list, which was a one-game list featuring Bang!, does NOT have the Geek Nature. Several students did not even guess -- perhaps the frustration is getting to them? Of those who guessed, everyone got it right. Except for... ummmm... one person, although the Master will withhold comment on this amusing development.

Correct:
Orphius
jwilhm
ScottBecker
Scurra
seppo21
rynelf

Incorrect:
KentuckyKid

With these results, the camel count is up to:

rynelf goldencamelgoldencamelgoldencamelgoldencamel
JoeSteadman goldencamelgoldencamelgoldencamel
Orphius goldencamelgoldencamelgoldencamel
scurra goldencamelgoldencamelgoldencamel
KentuckyKid goldencamelgoldencamel
s2alexan goldencamelgoldencamel
jwilhm goldencamelgoldencamel
ScottBecker goldencamelgoldencamel
seppo21 goldencamelgoldencamel
Tom Vasel goldencamel

Also, the Master offers these words of wisdom: The value of the Golden Camel lies not in possession, but in use.


Here is the current knowledge of the Master's Rule:

These lists HAVE the Geek Nature

*Round One*
Cosmic Encounter, Magic Realm, Magic: the Gathering (given)
Cosmic Encounter, Magic Realm, Wyvern (s2alexan)
Magic: the Gathering, Cosmic Encounter, Magic Realm (sdownin)
Cosmic Encounter, Magic Realm (jwilhm)

*Round Two*
Magic: the Gathering (Scurra)
Magic Realm (sdownin)
Cosmic Encounter (KentuckyKid)
Cosmic Encounter, Wyvern (chicagometh)
Cosmic Encounter, Showmanager, Magic Realm (ScottBecker)
Acquire, Axis and Allies: Europe (seppo21)
Magic Realm, Wyvern, Fist of Dragonstones (rynelf)
Advanced Squad Leader, Magic: the Gathering (JoeSteadman)

*Round Three*
Army of Darkness, Magic Realm (jwilhm)
Magic Realm, Wiz-war (Orphius)
Wyvern (KentuckyKid: mondo)
Advanced Squad Leader (Tom Vasel: mondo)

*Round Four*
Magic Realm, Acquire (Tom Vasel)
Wyvern, Cosmic Encounter, Magic Realm, Showmanager, Acquire, Fist of Dragonstones, Advanced Squad Leader, Wiz-war (Kentucky Kid)
Puerto Rico, Cosmic Encounter (Scurra)

*Round Five*
Acquire (jwilhm)
Acquire, Puerto Rico (Scurra)
Wiz-War (ScottBecker)
Modern Art (Orphius)
Robo Rally (KentuckyKid)


These lists DO NOT HAVE the Geek Nature

*Round One*
-- Melee, Wizard, Car Wars, Munchkin (given)
-- Ideology, Bang!, Road to the White House (ynnen)
-- Melee, Wizard, Magic Realm, Magic: the Gathering (Matt Kimball)
-- Citadels, Talisman, Cosmic Encounter (Scurra)
-- Cosmic Wimpout, Aladdin the Magic Carpet Game, Killer Bunnies and the Quest for the Magic Carrot (KentuckyKid)
-- Elric, Magic Realm, Frog Juice (rynelf)
-- Modern Art, Magic Realm, Lie Cheat & Steal (Orphius)
-- Settlers of Catan, Die Macher, Age of Steam, Hammer of the Scots (chicagometh)
-- Liar's Dice, Apples to Apples, Civil War 2061, die Magier von Pangea, Way Out West (TomVasel)
-- Go, Modern Art, Ticket to Ride, Hannibal (latindog)
-- Candyland, Wyvern, Samurai [by Knizia] (seppo21)
-- Dweebs Geeks and Wierdos, Battle of the Sexes, Alligator Pool Party, 7 ages (JoeSteadman)
-- Melee, Cosmic Encounter, Magic Realm (sbabcock: Mondo)

*Round Two*
-- Robo Rally, Magic Realm, Guillitone (jwilhm)
-- Axis & Allies, Battle Cry (s2alexan)
-- Magic Realm, Bang! (Orphius)
-- Magic Realm, Magic the Gathering, Disney Magic Kingdom Game, The Magic Box, Magic Hill, Killer Bunnies and the Quest for the Magic Carrot, Magic Wood, Quest of the Magic Ring, Ronda Magica, Castle of Magic, Aladdin and the Magic Carpet Game, Knights and Magick, Magical Arena, Murphy's Magic Mansion, Rubik's Magic (Tom Vasel)

*Round Three*
-- Castle of Magic, Talisman (sdownin)
-- Empire Builder, Euphrat & Tigris, Burp, Settlers of Catan, Uno (seppo21)
-- Cosmic Encounter, Borderlands, Magic Realm (ScottBecker)
-- Magic Realm, Robo Rally, Guillotine (rynelf)
-- Liar's Dice (s2alexan)

*Round Four*
-- Wizard's Quest (rynelf)
-- Axis and Allies, Wiz-War (Orphius)
-- Chez Dork, Blood Bowl (jwilhm)
-- Bang! (s2alexan: Mondo)

*Round Five*
-- Age of Steam, A Game of Thrones, Hammer of the Scots, Twilight Imperium Third Edition (rynelf)
-- Munchkin, Wizard (seppo21)


No Mondo lists were posted last round.


Post your new master or mondo lists below. And, if you have a Golden Camel, you may now attempt to guess the Rule!

Remember, frustration is the enemy of enlightenment! The solution is obtainable, and will bring great honor to its finder, not to mention the coveted "goo" icon goo, as well as the right to host the next game.
 
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Darin Stephenson
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Ken,

Here is the guess that I sent you on the Round 4 Mondo list:

----------------------------
I do not believe that

Bang!

has the GEEK nature.
----------------------------

But above, you state that I got it wrong. Maybe you missed the "not"? Anyway, I miss enough of these on my own, I don't need any help ... laugh

Can you check this again for me. You never know when an extra camel might come in handy. Of course, I can't even come up one guess right now...

-KentuckyKid
 
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Ken H.
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Quote:

----------------------------
I do not believe that

Bang!

has the GEEK nature.
----------------------------



Ahhhh, see now, umnmm... the Master is merely demonstrating the consequences of not heeding several truths of Zendo:

1. The devil's in the details.
2. Things might not be as they appear.
3. Don't allow past assumptions (however sound they were at the time) to influence your judgment.
4. No posting before coffee.

So, uhhh, now that you have all learned this important lesson, I can confirm that KentuckyKid's guess was in fact CORRECT, and the camel count stands at:

rynelf goldencamelgoldencamelgoldencamelgoldencamel
JoeSteadman goldencamelgoldencamelgoldencamel
Orphius goldencamelgoldencamelgoldencamel
scurra goldencamelgoldencamelgoldencamel
KentuckyKid goldencamelgoldencamelgoldencamel
s2alexan goldencamelgoldencamel
jwilhm goldencamelgoldencamel
ScottBecker goldencamelgoldencamel
seppo21 goldencamelgoldencamel
Tom Vasel goldencamel


 
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Darin Stephenson
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Master
Power Grid

"Camels? We don't need no stinkin' camels."
 
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Stephen Smith
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Master
Star Wars CCG
 
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Jeremy Wilhm
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Master
Goa.
 
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Aaron Walker
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Guessing..
Master, as wacky as it seems, I would like to use one of my precious camels.

goldencamel

Please tell me if I am correct in my belief that a list has the Geek Nature if for all games in the list, the final word of each game's name has exactly one "r" in it.

 
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Jeremy Wilhm
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(Looks at Orphius's guess)

(Laughs)

(Checks lists)

(Re-checks Orphius's guess)

(Re-checks lists)




Oh crap. shake

If this is the real answer, then I feel really dumb.
 
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Dave Peters
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Powers:Coleridge:Milton: Faith...must be, if anything, a clear-eyed recognition of the patterns and tendencies, to be found in every piece of the world's fabric, which are the lineaments of God.
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Go Orphius!
Makes more sense than any of the theories I'd had so far. Nice guess, regardless of whether it is right!
 
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Ken H.
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YES! That's right. Great job!

A list has the Geek Nature when every game on the list has exactly one "R" in the last (or only) word of its title.

Pshew! The Master is relieved. I went from thinking everybody would know the answer instantly, to wondering if anyone would ever get it.

Congratulations Aaron -- I'd love to hear what the thought process was, and how you figured it out. For that matter, I'm curious about what theories other players had as well.

Cosmic Encounter, Magic Realm, and M:tG are 3 of my favorite games. I chose them for the "good" list before I even decided what the Rule was going to be. It turns out these 3 games have a lot in common!
-- They all use cards.
-- They all have variable player powers.
-- They all have a sci-fi/fantasy theme.
-- They all have a Hasbro connection.
-- They are all rated 10 by me.
-- They all have dragons.
-- 2 out of 3 have the word "Magic" in the title.
-- 2 out of 3 have lots of expansion sets.
-- 2 out of 3 use hexagonal tiles.
-- 2 out of 3 were designed by a guy named "Richard".
-- 2 out of 3 were published in the 70's.
-- and probably a lot of other things that I have forgotten about or didn't notice in the first place.

So, there was a lot of noise and false paths to sift through. And then, when somebody submitted Wyvern on the first round, it really highlighted the illusion that theme and/or cards had something to do with the answer. Solving this one was no easy feat!

Anyway, enough about that. Now on to the ceremony:

**************************************

As the western sky slowly darkens, an eager group of students sit on rocks and perch on logs around the rubble of the meditation hut. A weary master stumbles from the wreckage muttering something about shoddy construction work, and clutching an oozing green trophy. He stops in the center of the small ring of students, and then gestures toward Orphius, named after the celebrated Thracian musician of Greek mythology.

As Orphius rises, fireworks burst on the horizon, and three rounds of "Huzzah!" erupt from the crowd. A rock band concealed in a nearby cedar grove strikes up a chorus of "We are the Champions", while two dozen flamenco dancers rush into the clearing and commence with rhythmic stomping and kicking.

The Master speaks:

Amidst the pomp and revelry (no doubt influenced by Stefan's goo paste), it is my great honor to make the following awards:

For longest list:
Tom Vasel earns... a robot! robot
(Don't ask me why, other than Tom gave me a robot when he submitted one of his mondo guesses.)

For Most Camels:
rynelf earns... a train! greentrain
(He'll need it to haul all those camels.)

For being teased unjustly:
KentuckyKid earns... a ninja! ninja
(This should make people think twice before joking.)


And most importantly, for winning the game:

Orphius earns a laurel and hearty handshake, along with the coveted "goo" icon:

goo !!!!

All hail the new Master!



 
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Jeremy Wilhm
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Just for fun, here are some of the theories that I had during this game:

A list had the Geek nature if:

- the entire list contained an odd number of letters and punctuation.

- Each game in the list contined an odd/even number of letters (including punctuation marks like : and !)

- Each game was published by a company before the company was purchased by Hasbro.

- Each game's minimum number of players divided evenly into it's maximum number of players.

- Each game was the first one published by that particular designer.

- It didn't contain a game designed by Steve Jackson.

All of them interesting. All of them wrong. Oh well. Hopefully I'll get it next time.
 
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Darin Stephenson
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Good work!!
Good work by Orpheus!

I'm happy to know that I was at least on the right track. I kept asking myself, "How is Axis and Allies: Europe different from Axis and Allies"? I had gotten to the point of deciding that the former had letters in it that the latter did not have. So I thought of a rule like "Every game in the list must contain the letter r", which obviously did not work. I hadn't gotten as far as thinking about individual words in the game name -- and I'm not sure I would have.

Very nicely done, Ken!

-KentuckyKidNinja sauronninjasauron
 
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Scotty B
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Way to go!
Congrats, Orphius. And well done, Ken. I was on the "R" trail for the first few rounds. But, I outsmarted myself when I used "Borderlands" (which has two Rs) in one of my lists. When that came back as not having the GeekNature, I was stumped!
 
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Darin Stephenson
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Weird Theories
My weirdest discarded theory:

A list has the GEEK nature if it does not contain either a game by Steve Jackson or a game with an alternate name.

-KentuckyKidNinja sauronninjasauron
 
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Stefan Alexander
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Wow, after all the crazy theories I had...

Nice rule, though! Very interesting, and very simple, and made all me time wading through the pages of each game rather meaningless (but fun)

Thanks for running this, Ken, it was very entertaining. And nice going, Orphius.
 
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Ken H.
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Quote:
I was on the "R" trail for the first few rounds. But, I outsmarted myself when I used "Borderlands" (which has two Rs) in one of my lists. When that came back as not having the GeekNature, I was stumped!



I thought you were on the right trail. After you submitted the Borderlands list, I was sure you would guess the Rule in the next round.

I also thought somebody might think it was something like: there has to be an R, but there can't be two games by the same publisher, etc.


Quote:

I'm happy to know that I was at least on the right track. I kept asking myself, "How is Axis and Allies: Europe different from Axis and Allies"? I had gotten to the point of deciding that the former had letters in it that the latter did not have.


Yes, that plus the Borderlands list is why I mistakenly thought the answer was obvious.
 
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Ken H.
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Quote:
Just for fun, here are some of the theories that I had during this game:

A list had the Geek nature if:

[...]

- It didn't contain a game designed by Steve Jackson.


What's interesting is that this theory was still viable right up until the moment Orphius won.

I mean, it was an obvious decoy because of the way I set up the "bad" list, but I guess I'm surprised nobody took a shot at it.
 
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Aaron Walker
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Thought Process?
Quote:

Congratulations Aaron -- I'd love to hear what the thought process was, and how you figured it out. For that matter, I'm curious about what theories other players had as well.


er...thought process...ah, yeah...
Well, after getting a headache trying to find commonality around years, player counts, and game mechanics, I turned to some great theories around word counts and the number of letters in a name, and a couple of other concepts I may save for a later date. Needless to say none of this worked. I think what flipped the switch for me was when I started mutterring the lists to myself - "Robo Rally?!? What the hell does Robo Rally have that Bang! doesn't? Why Axis and Allies: Europe but not Axis and Allies????". Hearing it loud may have given me the "R's", but I can't honestly say for sure. Of course, I almost bailed on "R" theories after two false starts, once because "Frog Juice" has an R in it, and later because Borderlands has two.

I'm...uh...honored to accept this Goo goo and I will endeavor to uphold the high standards that have been set by previous Masters.

Orphius lifts a single timber from the wreckage of the hut, wedges it among the branches of a nearby tree, and climbs onto the perch...
 
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David Brain
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Well I'm not posting the theories I had, just in case I ever manage to win a round and get to set a rule myself... Although after this last couple of games I'm not sure I ever will
 
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