David Hammond
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Which is more difficult for the human players to complete? NC, or Kobol?

The reason I ask is I'm kicking around a variant in my head that involves the Admiral choosing which location to go to just before the sleeper phase cards are dealt.

Spoilers ahead, but if you've got the Pegasus Exp, it's probably nothing new.

I suppose to make it more thematically appropriate to allow the president to "veto" the decision based on a vote, but I feel that would make the decision too complicated.

To me, NC and Kobol both seem almost equally difficult. It comes down to a matter of preference (only, with NC you technically only have to wait for the jump track to advance all the way once, and with Kobol, you can rush both jumps...) Anyway, I suppose this may need some balancing, but it certainly might help NC hit the table a few more times at our games (as it is, players tend to "hate" New Cap, thinking it causes the rest of teh game to feel irrelevant) - I feel that a variant such as this would sweeten the Admiral title, and in cases where New Caprica comes up, at least eliminate half of the game spent allowing civvy ships to be destroyed (which IMO is what makes New Cap far too easy).

What are your thoughts?
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Other people have suggested variants to this effect, though I don't recall any discussion of if they got played out.

My main question would be, why allow the Admiral to choose? In the show it was a direct Presidential order that led to the settlement of New Caprica; Adama was decidedly not in favor of it.
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David Hammond
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Hence my commentary about the presidential veto... To me it simply makes more sense to have the admiral dictating "where" to go, as he normally does throughout the series. Perhaps president would be a better fit though - it's all about determining who currently wields _more_ power, and then giving it to the other entity. The president seems to have a lot more choices on crisis cards (I may be wrong), and has the ability to screw people with the Quorum deck. The Admiral, on the other hand, really only has control of nukes (which he can't directly screw the humans over with) and destinations (which is rather powerful.) In fitting with the destination theme, that's why I chose the admiral.
 
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Cameron McKenzie
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You could just do a skill check at some point in the game to determine the destination, and tie the skill check to the President title as well:
Election - 8 Difficulty - Politics, Tactics, Treachery
Reckless
Pass: Continue to Kobol
Fail: Pass the President title to the next player in succession, and continue to New Caprica.

The reason I chose New Caprica and new president as the "default" fail setting is because Baltar was the more popular choice among the fleet. The skill check just represents the efforts of the main characters (who almost all supported Roslin) to sway popular opinion.

The treachery and reckless aspects are representative of Roslin's attempt to steal the election. You can use treachery to support the president, but there may be consequences.

You could tie resources to these results as well, to help balance the fact that you get a choice. When you pass the check, lose a morale, since the fleet will be demoralized about the decision not to settle on New Caprica. A lot of NC crises target morale, so this is an appropriate "cost" to bypassing those.

If the check fails, lose a fuel instead. This represents the supplies needed to land the fleet set up establishments on New Caprica. It's also an appropriate penalty since the fleet has to go fewer distance and won't lose as much fuel from destination cards.
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David Hammond
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MasterDinadan wrote:
You could just do a skill check at some point in the game to determine the destination, and tie the skill check to the President title as well:
Election - 8 Difficulty - Politics, Tactics, Treachery
Reckless
Pass: Continue to Kobol
Fail: Pass the President title to the next player in succession, and continue to New Caprica.

The reason I chose New Caprica and new president as the "default" fail setting is because Baltar was the more popular choice among the fleet. The skill check just represents the efforts of the main characters (who almost all supported Roslin) to sway popular opinion.

The treachery and reckless aspects are representative of Roslin's attempt to steal the election. You can use treachery to support the president, but there may be consequences.

You could tie resources to these results as well, to help balance the fact that you get a choice. When you pass the check, lose a morale, since the fleet will be demoralized about the decision not to settle on New Caprica. A lot of NC crises target morale, so this is an appropriate "cost" to bypassing those.

If the check fails, lose a fuel instead. This represents the supplies needed to land the fleet set up establishments on New Caprica. It's also an appropriate penalty since the fleet has to go fewer distance and won't lose as much fuel from destination cards.


I really like this. It's thematic, and seems functional. It doesn't bestow too much power to the admiral, and it still adds variance to the game. Going to try it.
 
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AZrugger wrote:
Which is more difficult for the human players to complete? NC, or Kobol?

The reason I ask is I'm kicking around a variant in my head that involves the Admiral choosing which location to go to just before the sleeper phase cards are dealt.

Spoilers ahead, but if you've got the Pegasus Exp, it's probably nothing new.

I suppose to make it more thematically appropriate to allow the president to "veto" the decision based on a vote, but I feel that would make the decision too complicated.

To me, NC and Kobol both seem almost equally difficult. It comes down to a matter of preference (only, with NC you technically only have to wait for the jump track to advance all the way once, and with Kobol, you can rush both jumps...) Anyway, I suppose this may need some balancing, but it certainly might help NC hit the table a few more times at our games (as it is, players tend to "hate" New Cap, thinking it causes the rest of teh game to feel irrelevant) - I feel that a variant such as this would sweeten the Admiral title, and in cases where New Caprica comes up, at least eliminate half of the game spent allowing civvy ships to be destroyed (which IMO is what makes New Cap far too easy).

What are your thoughts?


I have played it like this before: At the sleaper phase, a die roll decides on Kobol or New Caprica.

This works wonderfully, except that it makes it slightly harder on the humans, since play strategy is different depending on the destination:
- to kobol, you want as little crisis cards in the game as possible, this means as little turns as possible, this means as much FTL activations as you can.
- To NC, you want to loose as little population as possible from non civilian ship causes: you prefer to loose 2 civvies instead of 3 pop in ftl. Therefor as little ftl activations as possible.

So not knowing where you go leads to less optimal play, which is actually good when you switch loyalty half way.

When there are 4 or 6 players and no Cylon Leader, I use a similar rule: I let fate determine the use of sympathiser or sympathetic cylon (the same way in which you determine which "you are a cylon"-cards you use). It avoids metagaming as in: let's drop a resource to avoid a bad sympathiser, since there might be no sympathiser and it might be actually helping out the agenda of the sympathetic cylon.
At the same time, if humans want to be sure and drop a resource, the agenda's become more feasible, even if you get them at distance 6 - near the end of the game.
 
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quit and nuts wrote:


At the same time, if humans want to be sure and drop a resource, the agenda's become more feasible, even if you get them at distance 6 - near the end of the game.


In my experience in 90% of games the Admiral can drop fuel into red and still have enough to finish the game with little problem. I never understood why it's such a big deal to drop something down into the red unless you think your Admiral is a toaster.
 
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David Hammond
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We tried this over the weekend. We're going to play this way from now on... (We did the skill check vote at the sleeper phase. It really adds to the intensity of the game.)

And you know it's well balanced, because humans won with every resource at 1 or 2...
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stephen biggs
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AZrugger wrote:
Which is more difficult for the human players to complete? NC, or Kobol?

Overall percentage game wins by cylon are about the same.
But with NC; A lot of the loses are caused by the admiral being an unrevealed cylon.
With Kobol; The late game losses are progression of early game damage. i.e. either one of the 4 resource tracks run-out out Galatica blows up.

Seems to me that loosing because the admiral is a psilon is heavily luck dependant. i.e. If he's not a psilon it can't happen.
While the late game losses in the Kobol ending are determined by player skill.
 
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AZrugger wrote:
Which is more difficult for the human players to complete? NC, or Kobol?

To me, NC and Kobol both seem almost equally difficult. It comes down to a matter of preference (only, with NC you technically only have to wait for the jump track to advance all the way once, and with Kobol, you can rush both jumps...) Anyway, I suppose this may need some balancing, but it certainly might help NC hit the table a few more times at our games (as it is, players tend to "hate" New Cap, thinking it causes the rest of teh game to feel irrelevant) - I feel that a variant such as this would sweeten the Admiral title, and in cases where New Caprica comes up, at least eliminate half of the game spent allowing civvy ships to be destroyed (which IMO is what makes New Cap far too easy).

What are your thoughts?


NC can be more hurtful to cylons who need to use super crisis cards.
Some characters are better on NC due to their specials/weaknesses still being in effect or rendered not an issue, so it also depends on that as well.
 
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