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Subject: Will the second printing runs still be wood and MDF? rss

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I saw there is talk of another printing with new technology.

Will those second printing chips be made with the same materials?

Thanks!
 
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Adam Ruzzo
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Not sure, I haven't seen a definitive answer on that yet.
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David Sirlin
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The second run will be thick cardboard, 1/8th". I have samples and they were more solid feeling than I expected. Much more quantity at larger scale manufacturing means each set will be the same, it's all totally automated, unlike some of the hand-done stuff in the current run.
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Matthew McCloud
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Do you plan to keep the chips about the same size? I want an easy way to incorporate the 1st edition of Puzzle Strike with any planned expansions.
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David Sirlin
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The cardboard chips will be 1.5" diameter for the second printing (same as poker chips).
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I don't know the size of the current Puzzle Strike chips. Is that the same as poker chips?

Will the Deluxe edition be wood still? Or will there be no Deluxe edition any more?

(edit: forgot to be grateful) Hey! Thanks for getting us some information!
 
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Adam Ruzzo
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Depending on how much better the price is, I might pick up a copy of the second run too. I knew my purchase of the deluxe early was a bit of a risk. Early adopter and all that.

But hey, now the first edition is a "collectors edition"
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David Sirlin
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The current standard edition uses 1.45" diameter MDF chips. The current deluxe edition uses 1.75" diameter birch wood chips.

For the second printing, I'm only doing one version in higher quantity to get a better deal. Fyi, my margins on the current standard edition are unacceptably bad, but I wanted to release the game anyway, so I went forward with it. The second printing will allow me to reduce the retail price by about $15, while having standard industry margins instead of shooting myself in the foot as I'm doing now.

When that version exists, I'll either discontinue the deluxe version or continue selling it as-is, I'm not sure which. If the second printing sells well and the game catches on, I would consider doing a really deluxe version with the bigger manufacturer. I looked into a version using actual real poker chips, and at first glance it was going to have to retail for $250. With some work on getting that down, I bet it would end up at $199, but that's still probably too high (even though it would be crazy high quality). We could investigate wood again also. We'd have to figure out what a deluxe version would even be like when manufactured in higher volume. This is all kind of blue sky stuff though considering there won't be anything further unless the standard version of second printing sells well.

I think the current versions really are "collector's edition" though, as Bridger said. The deluxe one even includes a thing saying which number set you have.

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Thanks for all the information David!

I saw on another (edit: word skipped) thread for Puzzle Strike that the Deluxe editions are having their printing errors fixed before any more ship?

Is that true? I am thinking hard about pulling the trigger on buying the deluxe and knowing if the chips are being fixed first would help me to make the decision.

Thanks again!
 
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Adam Ruzzo
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$60 is much more in line with similar board games than $75. Still on the high side (considering you can get games like dominion for $25+shipping), but I think you'll see a much bigger interest in the game at the $60 price point.
 
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David Sirlin
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Desferous: The manufacturer has been taking down the information of each customer who has had problems, and what those problems are (be it one chip misprinted or entire set or whatever). They plan to fill the remaining orders of people who have waiting pretty long (with new printer hardware now up and running and with color changes to the source files), then to send replacements to everyone on their list.

They really shouldn't have ever shipped anything in the first place that would NEED to be replaced, but what can I say. At least an A for effort on their part for doing their best at addressing the problem.
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Sirlin wrote:
I looked into a version using actual real poker chips, and at first glance it was going to have to retail for $250. With some work on getting that down, I bet it would end up at $199, but that's still probably too high (even though it would be crazy high quality).


I would pay $250 for a version on real clay poker chips. But I'm probably such an extreme minority there that such a run could never happen. That's too bad.
 
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Gerry Lowe
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c_wraith wrote:
But I'm probably such an extreme minority there that such a run could never happen.


I dunno, I feel the same way. I'm a huge fan of quality components in games, and willing to pay commensurately. Whether that's enough for David to make a profit is another matter altogether...

Anyway, I'm already in for the current deluxe edition, so if an ultra-deluxe edition came along, I'd be gutted!
 
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Adam Ruzzo
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I would pay $170 for a poker chip version. Maybe a bit higher....tough call.
 
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Stefano Castelli
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Bridger wrote:
I would pay $170 for a poker chip version. Maybe a bit higher....tough call.


Actually, I'd pay 25/30 dollars for a CARD version of the game. Would'nt be a nice idea?
 
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Adam Ruzzo
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Castef wrote:
Bridger wrote:
I would pay $170 for a poker chip version. Maybe a bit higher....tough call.


Actually, I'd pay 25/30 dollars for a CARD version of the game. Would'nt be a nice idea?


No, because it would be $50+, it wouldn't be $25. David's production runs are not as big as Dominion's. It would also sacrifice one of the core tenants of the game. One of dominion's flaws is having to shuffle your deck so many times in the game. This wears out the cards and is a bit annoying. Hence the change to chips.
 
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Stefano Castelli
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Bridger wrote:
No, because it would be $50+, it wouldn't be $25. David's production runs are not as big as Dominion's.


It could always be cheaper than cardboard chips.

Quote:

It would also sacrifice one of the core tenants of the game. One of dominion's flaws is having to shuffle your deck so many times in the game. This wears out the cards and is a bit annoying. Hence the change to chips.


Oh, cam'on. Since when shuffling cards is "annoying"? Don't you think that shuffling cardboard tokens in a sack will wear them too?
 
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Adam Ruzzo
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Castef wrote:


Oh, cam'on. Since when shuffling cards is "annoying"? Don't you think that shuffling cardboard tokens in a sack will wear them too?


Since you have to do it more than twice per game. The tokens in my edition are wood, so They shouldn't wear very much


You could always buy the print and play version and make your own cards (or have them printed at thegamecrafter.com or artscow if you want higher quality cards, but that will proably cost as much as the standard game).
 
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Stefano Castelli
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Bridger wrote:
Castef wrote:


Oh, cam'on. Since when shuffling cards is "annoying"? Don't you think that shuffling cardboard tokens in a sack will wear them too?


Since you have to do it more than twice per game. The tokens in my edition are wood, so They shouldn't wear very much


The wooden edition is out of question. No way to pay that much for a (good) Dominion clone.

With the very same money I can buy 3/4 other good games.

Quote:

You could always buy the print and play version and make your own cards (or have them printed at thegamecrafter.com or artscow if you want higher quality cards, but that will proably cost as much as the standard game).


Eh, that's the issue. I'm waiting for a mass-produced card-game version of this.
 
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Adam Ruzzo
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Castef wrote:

Eh, that's the issue. I'm waiting for a mass-produced card-game version of this.


I very much doubt you'll ever see a mass produced card game version of this game (based upon Sirlin's posts in the past). The change to chips was a specific decision made to improve the game. Printing a card edition would be like taking a step backwards (in the designer's eyes). At least that's the impression I got.
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Stefano Castelli
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Bridger wrote:
Castef wrote:

Eh, that's the issue. I'm waiting for a mass-produced card-game version of this.


I very much doubt you'll ever see a mass produced card game version of this game (based upon Sirlin's posts in the past). The change to chips was a specific decision made to improve the game. Printing a card edition would be like taking a step backwards (in the designer's eyes). At least that's the impression I got.


Yep, my very same impression.
 
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Kyoko Steeple
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Castef wrote:
Bridger wrote:
I would pay $170 for a poker chip version. Maybe a bit higher....tough call.


Actually, I'd pay 25/30 dollars for a CARD version of the game. Would'nt be a nice idea?


Fuck a card game.
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Cameron Chien
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The chips make the tactile feel much different, hence why a lot of folks would NOT want to play it if it were a card game.

I couldn't figure out a good solution to making the edges of my poker chips more plain, so I ended up getting the regular version instead of the print and play version. Otherwise I would totally be all over this w/ nice clay poker chips.

Cameron
 
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Mike Forrey
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Bridger wrote:
Castef wrote:
Bridger wrote:
I would pay $170 for a poker chip version. Maybe a bit higher....tough call.


Actually, I'd pay 25/30 dollars for a CARD version of the game. Would'nt be a nice idea?


No, because it would be $50+, it wouldn't be $25. David's production runs are not as big as Dominion's. It would also sacrifice one of the core tenants of the game. One of dominion's flaws is having to shuffle your deck so many times in the game. This wears out the cards and is a bit annoying. Hence the change to chips.


Uhm..people that don't sleeve their cards are just foolish. Cards sleeved have just as much shelf life as anything else if you protect them. There are also card games out there with SMALL print runs that are well below $50 for a print run. Just look at Innovation as a perfect example.

By no means do i support a card game version of the game though. I much prefer it as it is with the chips. ATM i am actually making my own wooden disc version of the game to add more longevity to my copy. the game certainly wooden feel the same with cards especially when you are stacking the points.
 
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Adam Ruzzo
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bearn wrote:
Bridger wrote:
Castef wrote:
Bridger wrote:
I would pay $170 for a poker chip version. Maybe a bit higher....tough call.


Actually, I'd pay 25/30 dollars for a CARD version of the game. Would'nt be a nice idea?


No, because it would be $50+, it wouldn't be $25. David's production runs are not as big as Dominion's. It would also sacrifice one of the core tenants of the game. One of dominion's flaws is having to shuffle your deck so many times in the game. This wears out the cards and is a bit annoying. Hence the change to chips.


Uhm..people that don't sleeve their cards are just foolish. Cards sleeved have just as much shelf life as anything else if you protect them. There are also card games out there with SMALL print runs that are well below $50 for a print run. Just look at Innovation as a perfect example.


Innovation is a perfect example which proves my point.

Puzzle Strike is 350 Chips for $60; or $0.17 per chip
Innovation is 115 cards for $25; or $0.21 per chip

Innovation proves that small print run card games are more expensive than this chip version of Puzzle Strike

 
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