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Subject: Is a player forced to use an influence marker to declare a vote? rss

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Joshua Gardner
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I'm having trouble finding in the rules where it says a player "must" place an influence marker when declaring a vote. IE, if they're completely happy with where all of their influence markers are, and if they've used all their markers, are they forced to remove a marker if they take the "declare a vote" action?
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Moisés Solé
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yes, they need a marker. The rules say, you may re-use already used markers if you don't have any, but the alternative is simply not doing the action. The rules don't provide for voting without a marker.
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Garry Rice
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Page 7 of the manual at the top of the page in the blue section titled USING INFLUENCE MARKERS. Since placing a delegation on the voting floor requires an influence marker, your only option would be to use another from somewhere else, or if not interested, just snub delegates and switch out delegates from your hand, or to play a faction card on a faction you've already placed an influence marker on.
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Brent Wolgemuth
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I have wondered about this myself. When my wife and I played, we played that you could lay delagates down in the assembly room and could choose whether or not to place an influence marker.

With two players, I think you only get 3 influence markers to start the game (add 1 more if you use your planner right away). If you always have to leave an influence marker when you play in the assembly room, between 2 players you would have to play 6 in the red side or 7 in the green side and both players would need each other to finish a side. Also, almost all the influence markers from debates would be sucked into the assembly room, leaving debate most tokens un-taken.

I guess if 2 players decide to go on opposite sides in the assembly room, they are going to have to churn through the deck enough to get enough influence markers to end the round.

I would like to hear from the designers on the answer to this question.
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Brent Wolgemuth
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garry_rice wrote:
or to play a faction card on a faction you've already placed an influence marker on.


I didn't think you were allowed to add faction cards on delegates already played in the assembly room for a given state.

If I play down 2 Pennsylvania delegates, I can't go back later and add a 3rd. I could however, get 3 Pennsylvania delegates and override on the opposing side in the assembly room.
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Adam O'Brien
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page 7 of the rules, in the description of the "Declare a Vote" action, it states that you play the delegate cards to the yea or nay side and mark it with one of your influence markers, which says to me that placing the marker is a mandatory part of the "Declare a Vote" action.

page 8 of the rules, in the "One State, One Vote" box at the bottom, it says that once a state has voted, it cannot be "reinforced" later, only overridden by voting on the other side of an issue. So no, you can never add delegates to a state's group that has already voted, unless an event tells you that you can (I don't believe any events do, but theoretically...).
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Greg Schmittgens
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The quote from page 7 is: "A player may declare a vote by selecting one or more delegates of the same state delegation from his caucus . . . and marking them with one of his influence markers to identify himself as that delegation’s controlling player."

I think the question arises because of the word 'may'. Does that mean the player MAY place an influence marker?

But a strict parsing of the sentence is pretty clear IMO. The player MAY declare a vote. Once you decide to place a vote, you MUST select the delegates and you MUST place an influence marker.

At least, that's the way I explain it when I teach the game.
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Garry Rice
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krackelman wrote:
garry_rice wrote:
or to play a faction card on a faction you've already placed an influence marker on.


I didn't think you were allowed to add faction cards on delegates already played in the assembly room for a given state.

If I play down 2 Pennsylvania delegates, I can't go back later and add a 3rd. I could however, get 3 Pennsylvania delegates and override on the opposing side in the assembly room.


Sorry...I added to the confusion...never meant you could "reinforce" a delegation. Just trying to say that another way you can use your delegate cards without needing an influence marker is if you have one on the debate track for that faction already.
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Michael "Tie-Dyed-Eyes"
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referee wrote:
yes, they need a marker. The rules say, you may re-use already used markers if you don't have any, but the alternative is simply not doing the action. The rules don't provide for voting without a marker.


So If I I want to place a vote, but have no Influence markers left, can I take a marker from another delegation that has already voted, and place the vote that way. I realize I am sacrificing the points for the previous vote, for the sake of the new vote, but this seems like a legal play to me. What say you?

Rev. Tie-Dye
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Marc Nelson Jr.
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revtiedye wrote:
referee wrote:
yes, they need a marker. The rules say, you may re-use already used markers if you don't have any, but the alternative is simply not doing the action. The rules don't provide for voting without a marker.


So If I I want to place a vote, but have no Influence markers left, can I take a marker from another delegation that has already voted, and place the vote that way. I realize I am sacrificing the points for the previous vote, for the sake of the new vote, but this seems like a legal play to me. What say you?

Rev. Tie-Dye


Yep, that's legal. The delegation remains, but it is now uncontrolled and will not score points for anyone.
 
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Daniel Blumentritt
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On the same line: may a player remove his own influence at any time, or ONLY when he needs a new one?
 
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