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Subject: Holy paint cost batman (not the pre-paints!) rss

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Maxfield Stewart
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So once upon a time I used to paint Warhammer 40k stuff. Once upon a time being defined as 10 years ago. So needless to say, my paints are, ah... well.. not useful. I happen to be lucky enough to have snagged a copy of Dust Tactics, regular version and am heavily considering painting them. I haven't been motivated to paint in a long time, but well, I think I'm up to this task after looking at the models.

So, after deciding if I want Citadel or Vallejo paints (I always used Citadel before but went Vallejo this time) I put together a shopping cart from Miniature Market (always have decent prices). For brushes and the paints I want, $112 smackaroons! The "box" set of paints is $182. Either way, $100 for the game + $112 for paints is $88 short of the deluxe set.

Yea, I should of held out for the deluxe set. I could reduce the number of paints I want, but that might limit my options or result in "dangit I need another color" issues that arise while painting. Even so, anyone arguing that the pre-paint set is overpriced needs to think about what it would cost if you had to get into painting and buying the base set.

I still want to take a stab at painting them, but I either need to drastically reduce the color palates I want to use or find another way.
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Derek Anderson
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I like the Vallejo better than the Citadel paints... I know what you mean though, but the time you buy the paints, supplies, etc., and put the time into the painting, the deluxe set seems like a better and better deal.

D.
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K G
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i only use a very few game company produced colors , for the most part i dont like their workability . i prefer craft paints , mosyt of the gamers i know feel the same .

i dont know what paint set you are putting together , but i only need a select few paints , and figured the cost of colors and sealant would only be about $15 if you use craft paints and testor sealant .

i dont have to have every color , most will be mixed as needed , and the WW2 era color schemes dont call for very drastic and diverse palets .
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Maxfield Stewart
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What craft paints do you use? The Vallejo paints are about $2.50 a bottle. I picked out about 30 colors, all in the white/grey/tan/green shades. Problem is you can't really tell shade online so I buy a bit of a spread of each to ensure I have the color I'm looking for. I could get quite a bit of money saved if I could limit the colors more, but it's damn hard to tell without seeing their dried color, on various forms of primed colors first. Either way it's another 30-40 dollars in brushes and cheap clear coats, sealant, putty and glue.

I /do/ enjoy painting models but I'm under no illusions about my skill. The deluxe set is significantly better than I think I could do, mostly. my paint jobs are okay, they look great at about 4ft, but do not hold up under close inspection.

I'm mostly just venting, I've already got the basic set and the upside is if I want more troops, I have the paints and can buy another basic set. 2 deluxe sets would just be... well.. outrageous
 
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Jake Rose
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I like the Folk Art or Delta Cream Coat craft paints you get at Walmart or a craft store for about 95 cents a bottle (which is about 4 times the size of a GW jar.)

Jake
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K G
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i use a variety of brands , while you can go to walmart , if you go to an actual craft store like michaels or hobby lobby , they have a butt load of colors to chose from .

they range in price from .99 to $3 for the super big bottle which is like 12 ounces . you can see their color on the shelf display . and several times a year both hobby lobby and michaels put out coupons or run specials that can make them as cheap as .25 each for the small bottles (about 4 times the size of a games workshop paint .

if i were buying paints for this i would have gotten olive drab green , a dark grey of some sort , ivory , white , black , burnt umber , some sort of leather brown , a flesh tone , maybe a red , and a metalic such as pewter , and some sealant . i can mix the colors to do highlights , and shading , but these colors would pretty much do all i need for a standard WW2 paint scheme , and since the bottles are so big compared to GMW or valejo paints , you will have enough to blend as much as you would need to do 10 starter sets .

it does take some getting used to though , my experience with GMW paints is they tend to be a lttle thin , so you have to do alot more coats to get the good coverage with several of the colors . the craft paints cover alot better with fewer coats so ............


you can also buy brushes at the craft stores in sets that contain a good variety of shapes & sizes to get a good selection for a reasonable price , then you only need to pick out 1-2 detail brushes , and they are pretty cheap , especially compared to the game companies .

for sealant i use a good coat of krylon clear coat for its good protective value , the drawback is that even the satin finish is a bit glossy , AND like all comercial sealants of its kind , it can become tacky if it gets warm . to counter that i do a second coat of testor dull coat laquer , it removes the gloss and stops the stickness issue
the krylon is chaep at walmart , and the testor sealnat goes for $3-5 a can . you dont have to do the krylon , but i like the added protection .
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Maxfield Stewart
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I picked up some craft paints at Hobby Lobby and you're right, prices were as cheap as 69 cents a bottle depending on brand. I went with one tier above that as they had more shades of grey/green that I was looking for. Bought some brushes and other odds and ends. Total tab: $24 for paint and supplies. I'll attempt to paint a figure this weekend and see how it goes. It's "Acrylic" paint, which is the same label the Vallejo and Citadel paints give themselves, color me blinded by branding and sales, but I'm still nervous the paint will suck.

I'll keep you posted, thanks for the tips.
 
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Jake Rose
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One thing I noticed with craft paints is they are not consistent in how thick/thin they are, each color may require a little different approach.

I use an old plastic lid from a tub of butter or something as a pallet, and keep a little cup of water and an old syringe (no needle) as well as a bottle of extender (bought in the same rack the paints were found) where I am painting.

I squirt a dab or two of the color (or colors if mixing) onto the pallet. I mix (if needed) with toothpicks. I almost always add a drop or two of water to the paint and found I can use the tip of the brush to mix the paint/water to the consitency I want. Sometimes I add a drop or two of the extender (it can help the paint flow better than water). I often, if painting a lot of a certain color will add another drop of water/extender as needed.

I find many of the colors do well, but have not found a yellow that covers in a single coat the way I would like. Other colors may require an additional coat too.

For painting lighter colors I found painting the area white first allows a better coverage of the main color (obviously letting the white dry first).

I also find that if I prime with white, with most colors I can use a more watered down paint that over the white will seem darker in recesses and ligher on raised areas, giving a nice depth without a lot of extra effort.

I think the big thing is don't be afraid of not doing well or experimenting. If you don't like the results you got you can always strip the figure with Pinsol or something similar and try again.

You can see some figures I have painted with craft paints here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/gallery-user.jsp?u=4402


Jake
 
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K G
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the only problems i have had as far as thickness of the paint in craft paints is with some of the metalics .

admittedly , the yelloy may take more than one coat , regarless of who makes it , but i dont add water or extender to my paint , and most go on fine for me in one coat .

i actually preferre the plastic pallets they sell at the craft store for mixing , they are cheap and i like the little cups to keep the colors seperate . dried on paints are easily removed with the end of one of the sculpting tools i use to make minis .

here is my gallery , which includes some WH40k stuff aswell

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/images/boardgame/all?username=G...
 
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Ze Masqued Cucumber
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Vestas wrote:
I still want to take a stab at painting them, but I either need to drastically reduce the color palates I want to use or find another way.

My 2 cents...

If you intend to paint only this game's minis, forget about it and go for the deluxe set. You'll save lots of time and you won't end up with half-empty paint bottles you won't use anymore.

Otherwise :
-Mix colors! Basically only need the 3 primary, black, white, and a couple of metals. Of course it's the bare minimum, the more paints you have, the easier. In Dust Tactics, you have 2 armies, which colour palettes are not overly wide (olive drab, grey, etc), you shouldn't need a zillion paints (except if you choose a "bozo the clown" scheme).
I painted Doom+expansion with 20-ish paints, it was enough. And the colour schemes I chose were pretty "bozoid". Check my gallery and/or the Doom galleries in case of doubt.
-Don't be cheap on paints. Whatever your painting skill level, you'll need (much) more time to get equivalent results with craft paints than with Vallejo/P3/etc. I say.
 
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Roolz wrote:


-Don't be cheap on paints. Whatever your painting skill level, you'll need (much) more time to get equivalent results with craft paints than with Vallejo/P3/etc. I say.


actually , my use of craft paints has nothing really to do with the cost . i have been playing minis games for about 20 years .

i began my painting using testor enamels as a teenager , and the results sucked . you need alot of experience to make them work .

i eventually moved onto the acrylics made by the game companies , and had a ton of paints accumulated as i got into different games . as time went by i really liked the armory paints because of their selection and paint workability . they went away .

there was another brand , cant remember what company made them , but they has some really nice blood stain and such , but they to went under too .

i never really liked GMW paints except for their inks (which i still use ) . i made use of my armory paints , ralpartha paints , etc till they were all gone , and eventually i had to use more of the GMW paints .

my shift to craft paints started when i started building a WH40K Khornate army . i discovered a wonderful red that i used to basecoat/wases the figs , that gave a really nice blood red color (tompte red by delta ceramcoat ) as time went by i began using more and more of the craft paints because they have probably 300 colors to chose from , and perform better IMHO than the expensive game company paints .

the only colors i buy from the game companies are inks , mitheral silver , tinbitz , and gunmetal . all my other paints are craft paints because i like their peformance better than the pro paints . the only reason i use the above propaints is because i cant get those exact colors from mixing or from the craft paints .

that they are cheaper is just a HUGE bonus ( huge because they are not only cheaper per bottle , but you get 4 times as much paint per bottle to )

the other minis gamers at my FLGS are pretty much in the same boat . i see some incredible paintjobs on the tables , but the game store sells veeeeeeeeerrrry little game company paint . and most of that that they do sell is to new minis gamers that are just getting into the hobby .....................................which is kinda ironinc i guess that the crapier paintjobs are by the newer players using pro grade game paints and the better paintjobs are by the experienced gamers using cheaper craft paints :S




and while im thinking about it , i also notice pro game paints tend to dry out in the bottle (GMW especielly ) alot faster so the craft paints tend to last A LOT longer on that front aswell so you dont have to REPLACE your paints as often either . this isnt an issue if you do A LOT of minis painting , but if you only paint from time to time , this can be a major annoyance when you go to paint only to fing the paint puck in the bottle .
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Ze Masqued Cucumber
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GrandInquisitorKris wrote:
actually , my use of craft paints has nothing really to do with the cost . i have been playing minis games for about 20 years .


Well, craft paints might be your liking, and you know how to use them at their full potential. They're just not my liking at all (and not the one of other experienced painters I know), maybe I've never found craft paints of decent quality. I also never seen a good (I mean really good) mini painter using crafts...

Since there were only posts recommending craft paints, I wanted to tone down that a bit.
You don't choose a paint because of price. You choose it because the result looks good and it's adapted to your painting style.
So beware of extreme statements (base only in black/white, use only craft/mini paints, etc.).

You probably know it, but GW paints have seen a drop in quality over the years, their plastic bottles suck indeed (their inks are good). That's why I use mostly Vallejo (Vallejo is a paint company, not a game company. They manufacture craft paints of course, but to paint minis I simply prefer their model paint range).

 
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Maxfield Stewart
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Lots of good advice here on paints. I'm not an "experienced" painter. And my languishing Warhammer Fantasy set from 10 years go shows it. I rush, I'm impatient, I have trouble seeing the final product while I'm painting, the list goes on. I do /enjoy/ it, or I did back then anyway. But I'm by no means good. In this particular case, I enjoy Dust Tactics, didn't get a chance to nab a deluxe set but did get a basic set for less than MSRP on E-bay. Deciding I wanted to paint them was easy, realizing that if I bought model paints it was going to cost me 2/3 the deluxe made me choke a bit.

Anyway, I picked up craft paints from Hobby Lobby like I said. And my memory could be foggy, but yea, the quality isn't as good as the citadel paints I used back then. Nothing I can't deal with, the texture of the paint isn't the same from color to color and the lighter colors do have some coating issues that require careful layering. They do however drybrush well. No inks/washes though so I had to make my own, with mixed results. My wash/ink techniques have always been, shall we say, poor. Overall I'm happy with the "demo" result of the one fig I finished. Typical for me the face sucks etc. but from 2-3ft above the game table it'll work.

I'll post a pic as soon as I have one so you can tear it down I'm not unhappy with the craft paint choice as for a low price I can experiment. if I decide I really want to completely get back into the painting hobby I might get some Vallejo paints (I've seen the GW/Citadel paints and yea, even back then, I had a complete set of the "master paint set" dry out inside a year, some of which I never opened).

 
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sorry to hear you dont like them .

i tend to rush to now . there was a time when i used to like painting , now i only paint when i have to to get the results i want .

as for the thickness issues , try shaking the thiner ones a little longer , they tend to settle on the shelf a bit more because of their size .

for faces , i usually do thin coat of flesh a really super thin wash of burnt umber (just to get the crevices , then dry brush with more of the flesh , then draybrush a mix of flesh and a tiny bit of ivory for highlights .

since there are really only so few figs , i will probably paint mine aswell eventually .............. if they ever get around to releasing this game ;S
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Maxfield Stewart
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It's not that I don't like the paint, as I work with it I'm getting the hang of the way the different colors work consistency wise. It just remember the citadel paints being a bit easier to apply an even coat.

As for drybrushing the faces.. I do the skintone/burnt umber wash. But I can imagine trying to drybush in that tiny little space, I'm just not that talented even with small brushes. I am, however, thankful that there's not that many units. my first squad is about %65 complete and if I really battened down the hatches I could do all of them in one weekend, but I'm taking my time

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Maxfield Stewart
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So here's a link to my fist completed Axis squad:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/images/user/144457/vestas

Here's a few samples for the unlink inclined:







As I said, my drybrush/inking skills need work but I'm not all that unpleased with the results. This is using "Folk Art" craft paints from Hobby Lobby.
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Olivier Zamfirescu
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Very nice work! Congratulations!
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Ze Masqued Cucumber
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Nice job ! I'd suggest to add a light wash on the bases (blue/grey for example), it'll make the minis stand out a bit more.
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Maxfield Stewart
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So I finished a second Axis squad. I'm a little less pleased with the results, mainly because it's a serious PITA to get a good ink/wash made with craft paints. Consistency was a pain and my frustration led to a bit rushed drybrushing/wash. Good news is it was just the grenadiers with gas masks, and at a distance they blend in with the standard unit I pictured above. That's also a problem, they are a tad hard to distinguish at 2-3ft. I'll need to find some way to mark their uniforms.

For the Laser Grenadiers I'm not sure what I'm going to do. Photo's from the pre-paints show their out fits as amore of a dark green/olive with blackish armor. I'll probably due to the blacked out armor, but I don't like the idea of a green/olive uniform as that's the color set I intend to use for the allies and I'd rather they don't blur even if their helmets and laser gear set them apart. Perhaps all dark grey instead of the light grey/dark grey combo.
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Quick advertisement :
Do not hesitate to enter the monthly mini painting contest.
general geeklist here
A "mini painters guild" has also been created (see august contest GL for link).

 
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Hey guys, long time troller, finally needed to create an account so I could post in this thread.

Ok, so, I am a professional miniature painter, I work in a boardgame store and I have been painting GW models since I was 8 years old. That being said I will HIGHLY recommend using hobby paints. You simply will NOT have the control you want with craft or non-hobby/cheap paints.

You want thin paint, like, really thin, maybe the consistancy of 2% milk. You want to do multiple coats of thin paint so you don't lose the details and you get a nice, controllable colour. Also, never EVER paint straight colours, always mix. This will create a more realistic colour than straight colours.

As for paints, I recommend Vallejo and extender. I, personally, use GW paints because I have been using them for 15+ years. In retort to a comment earlier about the quality of GW paints dropping over the last few years, I could not disagree with you more. The paints have gone up in quality significantly. They are thinner, have an even consistancy and provide BALANCED coverage. They also offer a very comprehensive range, although Vallejo still has a broader range of hues and tints.

You also HAVE TO BE PATIENT. If you want a quick job, prime them black using an ACRYLIC spray. NEVER use OSH brand or w/e spray paints. The molecules are not disrupted as much as hobby sprays. OSH sprays will be clumpy and will cover important details. Then simply do 2 drybrushes of the colour you want. For standard american GI green, use a forest green followed by a lighter middle shade of grean. Then use inks, washes or SUPER watered down paints to pick up shadows. Then do a VERY light dry brushing of the middle shade green. For skin, simply use a flesh tone and light wash the recesses with a yellowish or reddish wash. the GW washes Gryphon Sepia or Ogryn flesh work GREAT for this.

Anyway, best of luck on your painting! I am picking this game up today from my work. I will post pictures of the dust minis once I finish my Space Hulk Blood Angels.
 
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