Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
36 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Defenders of the Realm» Forums » Rules

Subject: Defenders of the realm too easy? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Olivier Prevot
France
Paris
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Hello,

We have played 4 times with 4 players and always easily won. Each General are killed on the first combat, there are always at least 6 crystals left and almost 10 minions of eacht type.
Why could we do wrong?
Is the game too easy with 4 players? Are we doing something wrong?
without changing the rules or adding a variant what mistake are we making?
I read the rules and FAQ, thanks Richard!

If we ask this it is because the game is really attractive, we like the world, the game mechanics, the heroes, the villains! laugh

thank you all for your time and answers!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dana R.
United States
Claremont
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
badge
Devotium Popcornicus
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
grouik wrote:
Hello,

We have played 4 times with 4 players and always easily won. Each General are killed on the first combat, there are always at least 6 crystals left and almost 10 minions of eacht type.
Why could we do wrong?
Is the game too easy with 4 players? Are we doing something wrong?
without changing the rules or adding a variant what mistake are we making?
I read the rules and FAQ, thanks Richard!

If we ask this it is because the game is really attractive, we like the world, the game mechanics, the heroes, the villains! laugh

thank you all for your time and answers!


Hard to tell if you could be doing something wrong without more details. Are you tainting properly? Tainting always kicks our arses if not giving attention properly just like it did last evening in a 4 player game. Often, of your not careful, what should be one land tainted ends up being 2-3 lands tainted in one turn.

Without more details it's going to be hard to trace. Maybe you guys are just lucky and the cards are going your way but 4 games in a row however is unusual.

Generals moving properly? and as the war goes on Generals can run right to the city with the correct card draws. Generals heal...you keep placing minions even after that specific General is dead.


One General you don't use special abilities and all move only in the direction of the city..are you moving backwards lol...So many guesses so little time...I think you need to state more details.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian Allen
United States
Madison
Alabama
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
We played our first 4 player game of this last night and while it seemed challenging for the first half of the game, in the second half we built up big hands of cards and beat the crap out of 1 general at a time until all 4 were dead.

With all the special cards we really felt the game was too easy. It was just a first play, and we liked it a lot, but we might use the variant next time and see if we can boost up the difficulty somewhat.

Since the game is so similar to Pandemic (yet with some really cool differences), people can't help but compare the difficulty level with that of Pandemic, which can be a very harsh and unforgiving game at times.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian Allen
United States
Madison
Alabama
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Maybe as a house rule - add in chain reaction overflows of the Minions? That would really keep you on your toes.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Launius
United States
Johns Creek
Georgia
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
First of all congratulations on your wins! If you have not had challenging games in 4 plays I would think that something is not being played correctly, but there is no way I could know, so let's assume you are playing correctly. My advice is to ramp up the challenge by using some of the Tougher Game Variant rules found on the last page of the rulebook. That is one of the nice things about the game, it enables the players to change the difficulty level of play to fit the challenge their group desires. I would start with reducing the Special Cards. This is a minor adjustment, but forces experienced players to work significantly better together because less help is coming from the king's other resources. Take the Special card and discard any number (5 is a good number to start with) into the box without looking at them, that way you will not know which cards are lost.

When the Dragons expansion comes out, I think you will find some of the scenarios will challenge your group at a much more difficult level than the base game.

Thanks for playing - Richard
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Olivier Prevot
France
Paris
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Slabcity wrote:
Hard to tell if you could be doing something wrong without more details. Are you tainting properly? Tainting always kicks our arses if not giving attention properly just like it did last evening in a 4 player game. Often, of your not careful, what should be one land tainted ends up being 2-3 lands tainted in one turn.

Without more details it's going to be hard to trace. Maybe you guys are just lucky and the cards are going your way but 4 games in a row however is unusual.

Generals moving properly? and as the war goes on Generals can run right to the city with the correct card draws. Generals heal...you keep placing minions even after that specific General is dead.


One General you don't use special abilities and all move only in the direction of the city..are you moving backwards lol...So many guesses so little time...I think you need to state more details.


Do we agree that an overrun does not create other overruns? There cannot be very much taints as even if we add 2 minions on a location with 3 other minions it only creates one taint and one overrun. The adjacent locations would have to be at 3 minions already for them to be tainted.
No General moves more then once in a round even with 3 cards.
Generals die one the first attack so no healing...
How come the Generals aren't adapted to the number of players?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Leigh Shepherd
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Errors that might make it really easy... - you are drawing 4 darkness cards (one for each character) at the end of the turn,and then 8 after killing your first general and 12 when you are on the last general?

That should be putting 12-16 minions out each time, so unless you are killing 3 or 4 minions each character each turn, it's hard to keep the numbers down without using special cards or neglecting quests, taints or generals; talking of which...

You are not jsut discarding the special cards when used, but are removing them from play, yes?

You say "with all the special cards", but there should only be 16 out of 96, or 1 in 6, so you should only be getting 1 a roundish, and once its gone its gone for good.

You're not just drawing cards from the inn, but calling out a colour and only keeping those (and special) cards that match the colour you called?

Those off the top of my head might be easy mistakes to make that would up the ease of the game!

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dana R.
United States
Claremont
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
badge
Devotium Popcornicus
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
grouik wrote:
There cannot be very much taints as even if we add 2 minions on a location with 3 other minions it only creates one taint and one overrun. The adjacent locations would have to be at 3 minions already for them to be tainted.


Unless I am playing wrong no space can have more then 3 minions in it. Once the 4th should be placed (of any color) that land is tainted so in a turn several lands can become tainted. And one race tainted on the placement of a 3rd minion not the 4th like the other 3.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Leigh Shepherd
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Slabcity wrote:
grouik wrote:
There cannot be very much taints as even if we add 2 minions on a location with 3 other minions it only creates one taint and one overrun. The adjacent locations would have to be at 3 minions already for them to be tainted.


Unless I am playing wrong no space can have more then 3 minions in it. Once the 4th should be placed (of any color) that land is tainted so in a turn several lands can become tainted. And one race tainted on the placement of a 3rd minion not the 4th like the other 3.


I've been playing it with demons that they taint on the 3rd AND on the 4th, so once there are 3 demons they get a taintm, adn any more minions tryig to get in cause an extra crystal to appear - thats probably what you mean, but perhaps another way the game would be easier.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Olivier Prevot
France
Paris
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Leigh Shepherd wrote:
Errors that might make it really easy... - you are drawing 4 darkness cards (one for each character) at the end of the turn,and then 8 after killing your first general and 12 when you are on the last general?

That should be putting 12-16 minions out each time, so unless you are killing 3 or 4 minions each character each turn, it's hard to keep the numbers down without using special cards or neglecting quests, taints or generals; talking of which...

You are not jsut discarding the special cards when used, but are removing them from play, yes?

You say "with all the special cards", but there should only be 16 out of 96, or 1 in 6, so you should only be getting 1 a roundish, and once its gone its gone for good.

You're not just drawing cards from the inn, but calling out a colour and only keeping those (and special) cards that match the colour you called?

Those off the top of my head might be easy mistakes to make that would up the ease of the game!


What??? wow
you mean we take 4 cards at once? No 1 card after each player's turn?
Player one plays Day, Evening and Night, then player 2 does the 3 same phases I suppose?
Only 16 special cards?? we have a lot!! But yes we remove them from play.
Yes for the inn!
Hum what are we doing wrong.. cry
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Leigh Shepherd
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Sorry! mad typing with baby under foot meant I lost a sentence there!

what I meant to be saying there is that you dont all do the day pahse, then move onto the evening, then just get 1 darkness spreads card at the night phase - as you say, each character has his own full day,evening night phase before moving on to the next. First time i played, It felt more intuitive to to this (all carry out the day actions, then all hero draw cards for thr evening then all do the darkness at night). If you did that and only drew one darkness spreads card youd only be getting 1 card per set of turns, rather than 4.

This woudl radically alter teh ease fo teh game, but it does sound like you are having it very easy!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Leigh Shepherd
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
grouik wrote:
Slabcity wrote:
Hard to tell if you could be doing something wrong without more details. Are you tainting properly? Tainting always kicks our arses if not giving attention properly just like it did last evening in a 4 player game. Often, of your not careful, what should be one land tainted ends up being 2-3 lands tainted in one turn.

Without more details it's going to be hard to trace. Maybe you guys are just lucky and the cards are going your way but 4 games in a row however is unusual.

Generals moving properly? and as the war goes on Generals can run right to the city with the correct card draws. Generals heal...you keep placing minions even after that specific General is dead.


One General you don't use special abilities and all move only in the direction of the city..are you moving backwards lol...So many guesses so little time...I think you need to state more details.


Do we agree that an overrun does not create other overruns? There cannot be very much taints as even if we add 2 minions on a location with 3 other minions it only creates one taint and one overrun. The adjacent locations would have to be at 3 minions already for them to be tainted.
No General moves more then once in a round even with 3 cards.
Generals die one the first attack so no healing...
How come the Generals aren't adapted to the number of players? :)


Overruns can't cause extra overruns, but they do cause more taints, I believe - so lets say there is an overrun ion a space, and it has 3 adjacent spaces each with 3 minions in them already. You cant add any more minions to those 3 spaces, but you'd get a taint crystal in each those overrun spaces, even if they already had taints in them.

edit - reading again, i cansee thats how you are plaiynig itm, but even so, its not hard for the numbers to creep up and anumber of adjacent spaces to get 3 minions already. Again, unless you are very efficent at cleaning them out!

If you have 5 actions, you could probably guarantee clearing out a couple of spaces of minions. Lets say I kill 6: There are 3 in one space and it takes a couple of attacks to clear them all, I moe one space and repeat. But thats without much travel between them. Theyd ahve to line up for you! If teh breakout of minions occurs away from your heros, they could spend half or more of their actions just getting there. I then draw a darkness spreads card that will likely add 4 minions back in (possibly more if the general moves or you get an orc card).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Was George Orwell an Optimist?
United States
Corvallis
Oregon
flag msg tools
The Herbie Nichols Project - Dr. Cyclops' Dream
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
grouik wrote:
No General moves more then once in a round even with 3 cards.

There's one you're playing wrong, and it's a big one. Any General can move once per card drawn, so if you hit a bad streak of luck, 3 cards can move the same General 3 locations.

When you get to Mid War, the first card is used both to taint new locations (the top section of the card) and to advance a General (bottom section of card). The second card drawn uses only the bottom section to advance a General. When you get to Late War, the first two cards use both the top and bottom section, and the third card is used only to advance a General.

As others have noted, the required number of Darkness Spreads cards must be drawn at the end of each Hero's turn, so in a full round with 4 Heroes, 8 cards will be drawn during Mid War and 12 cards during Late War.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Was George Orwell an Optimist?
United States
Corvallis
Oregon
flag msg tools
The Herbie Nichols Project - Dr. Cyclops' Dream
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Leigh Shepherd wrote:
I've been playing it with demons that they taint on the 3rd AND on the 4th, so once there are 3 demons they get a taintm, adn any more minions tryig to get in cause an extra crystal to appear - thats probably what you mean, but perhaps another way the game would be easier.

Demons taint on the 3rd, but if you start the turn with 2 Demons and 2 more are required from a single card action, you only place 1 taint. See Richard's answer here and follow-up answer further down in the same thread.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Olivier Prevot
France
Paris
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Sphere wrote:

There's one you're playing wrong, and it's a big one. Any General can move once per card drawn, so if you hit a bad streak of luck, 3 cards can move the same General 3 locations.

When you get to Mid War, the first card is used both to taint new locations (the top section of the card) and to advance a General (bottom section of card). The second card drawn uses only the bottom section to advance a General. When you get to Late War, the first two cards use both the top and bottom section, and the third card is used only to advance a General.

As others have noted, the required number of Darkness Spreads cards must be drawn at the end of each Hero's turn, so in a full round with 4 Heroes, 8 cards will be drawn during Mid War and 12 cards during Late War.

Yes buth the General moves only if his portrait is drawn and only if the correct movement is drawn. So like in Late War there is only one General he doesn't move much!

For the number of cards in the Night 1 card per hero, per turn??? So much???
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Leigh Shepherd
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Sphere wrote:
Leigh Shepherd wrote:
I've been playing it with demons that they taint on the 3rd AND on the 4th, so once there are 3 demons they get a taintm, adn any more minions tryig to get in cause an extra crystal to appear - thats probably what you mean, but perhaps another way the game would be easier.

Demons taint on the 3rd, but if you start the turn with 2 Demons and 2 more are required from a single card action, you only place 1 taint. See Richard's answer here and follow-up answer further down in the same thread.


ah yes - that is how im playing it - but if a fourth minion is then required to go into the already tainted on 3 demon minions space following another Darkness Spreads event, you end up with a second crystal as per teh usual tainting rules, yes?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gerald Gan
Philippines
Quezon City
NCR
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes, during 'Night" of every hero's turn, he/she should draw 1/2/3 Darkness Spread cards accordingly. Improving the odds of the generals moving towards Monarch City, as well as rapidly increasing their minions.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Was George Orwell an Optimist?
United States
Corvallis
Oregon
flag msg tools
The Herbie Nichols Project - Dr. Cyclops' Dream
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Leigh Shepherd wrote:
ah yes - that is how im playing it - but if a fourth minion is then required to go into the already tainted on 3 demon minions space following another Darkness Spreads event, you end up with a second crystal as per teh usual tainting rules, yes?

Yes - there's a limit of one taint per location in a single card action, but no limit to how much can accumulate over a series of actions. You can even get more than one taint in a location from a single card, the first from minion placement, the second from additional placement when a general moves.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Was George Orwell an Optimist?
United States
Corvallis
Oregon
flag msg tools
The Herbie Nichols Project - Dr. Cyclops' Dream
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
grouik wrote:
For the number of cards in the Night 1 card per hero, per turn??? So much???

Yes, in Early War. 3 cards per hero per turn in Late War. Sounds like we figured out why you were winning so easily.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Neil Edmonds
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Do you need more card ideas for the D&D Adventure System games?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If the concern is General movement don't forget the following:

1.) The General places minions on the new space in addition to moving. It's easy to overlook it in the rush to move the figure.

2.) During the late war phase, minions are placed for the first TWO Darkness Spreads card draws in addition to doing the general's movement on THREE card draws. I find players forgetting the minion step on the second card because they're used to the mid-war phase.

Regarding difficulty variants, I tried the "overruns allowed on initial minion placement" and it can make the game harder if you start off in a hole. I got three overrun cycles and had 5 crystals on the board and three hot spots before I ever took a turn. I lost that game in a hurry due to taints.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Olivier Prevot
France
Paris
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Sphere wrote:
grouik wrote:
For the number of cards in the Night 1 card per hero, per turn??? So much???

Yes, in Early War. 3 cards per hero per turn in Late War. Sounds like we figured out why you were winning so easily.

No sorry! soblue
We are playing this correctly! I thought you meant that in a 4 player game, each players draws 4 cards in early War then 8 then 12 (48 in total for each of the 4 players in late war which is crazy)
However we just did a 2 player game and it was great! Tense, very hard and we won by a thread!
I really still think there is a equilibrium problem depending on the number of players.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Boersma
Australia
Clyde North
Victoria
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've played 2 two player games and a three player game.

The two player games we lost due to running out of minions and a general (Sapphire) reaching Monarch City.
The three player we lost due to taint.

I don't understand how you've won every game you've played. I can't see it being that easy...

Cheers,
Ben.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Olivier Prevot
France
Paris
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Boromir_and_Kermit wrote:
I've played 2 two player games and a three player game.

The two player games we lost due to running out of minions and a general (Sapphire) reaching Monarch City.
The three player we lost due to taint.

I don't understand how you've won every game you've played. I can't see it being that easy...

Cheers,
Ben.

I know!!!
I would love to see a video of a game being played and say ah ha! This is where I went wrong! laugh
The only thing that is possible is that we played a lot of pandemic games so we know how to handle crises and use cards with maximum efficiency. whistle
Even so i know somehting is wrong but I cannot put my finger on it (read the rules 4 times and FAQ twice...)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Boersma
Australia
Clyde North
Victoria
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Maybe you're just that good? meeple
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Leigh Shepherd
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
grouik wrote:
Boromir_and_Kermit wrote:
I've played 2 two player games and a three player game.

The two player games we lost due to running out of minions and a general (Sapphire) reaching Monarch City.
The three player we lost due to taint.

I don't understand how you've won every game you've played. I can't see it being that easy...

Cheers,
Ben.

I know!!! :what:
I would love to see a video of a game being played and say ah ha! This is where I went wrong! :laugh:
The only thing that is possible is that we played a lot of pandemic games so we know how to handle crises and use cards with maximum efficiency. :whistle:
:D


What if you did a play by forum - wouldnt have to play an entire game, jsut a couple of rounds to see if ythe basic way you were playin was correct?

So just type up a report/take soem photos and everyone can see how youre doing it.

If I get chance later in teh week and no one has started such a thing, i might start one myself!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.