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Subject: Zilch and how to play it rss

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Ok, I found two similar versions of the Zilch power.

http://warp.redamedia.com/eonpowers.php
http://cosmicencounter.wikia.com/wiki/Zilch

Wiki explains that the Zilch can't get the flare, and still The Warp says that the Zilch flare is given to the Zilch player. I thought it actually could have been played, having it be the only card Zilch could ever have (giving him the chance to change his mind).

Has anyone got any interesting cases to state, having actually played the Zilch (I know Jack Reda did ) ?

And about the tactics: If a player realizes he has been chosen by the Zilch, what could he do to win? Does a shared victory of the chosen and another player count as the Zilch winning?
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Todd France
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can't access the warp right now; did the Mayfair version cause the chosen player to lose as well? I always remembered it as winning in addition to the chosen player, and would say that's the better way to play it.

Edit: Yeah, Mayfair isn't usually a "win instead of" power:
Zilch (Mayfair) wrote:
At the start of the game you write down the player you think will win. If at the end of the game, he is a winner, you win too. If you correctly predict a shared win that doesn't include you, then you win alone.

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Ido Abelman
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I never played with zilch, but both editions have problems - in eon's the player you choose actually can't win, in mayfair's it's pretty hard to win alone. Which is why I thought of another version, based a little on the Bene Gesserit from dune - you choose both a player and a round number. If the player wins you win too, if he wins at the predicted round number you win alone. Might be worth testing.
 
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pseudotheist wrote:

Zilch (Mayfair) wrote:
If you correctly predict a shared win that doesn't include you, then you win alone.



I don't understand this. blush
 
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Big Head Zach
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indidkid wrote:
pseudotheist wrote:

Zilch (Mayfair) wrote:
If you correctly predict a shared win that doesn't include you, then you win alone.



I don't understand this. blush


It's arguably easier to affect the outcome of a final battle in which you're involved (you ally with the offense, or agree to deal with the opponent and trade colony for colony) than it is to predict and puppeteer who will end up joint-winning with someone else.

However, that's a bit extreme of an idea, even for Cosmic. I tend to prefer the Zilchling modification which grants a joint victory if the predicted player wins, and a solo victory if you joint win with the predicted player.
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bhz1 wrote:
indidkid wrote:
pseudotheist wrote:

Zilch (Mayfair) wrote:
If you correctly predict a shared win that doesn't include you, then you win alone.



I don't understand this. blush


It's arguably easier to affect the outcome of a final battle in which you're involved (you ally with the offense, or agree to deal with the opponent and trade colony for colony) than it is to predict and puppeteer who will end up joint-winning with someone else.

However, that's a bit extreme of an idea, even for Cosmic. I tend to prefer the Zilchling modification which grants a joint victory if the predicted player wins, and a solo victory if you joint win with the predicted player.


I am so embarrassed, I still don't get this.
If there are players A, B and C with normal powers, (ah what's normal) and player D who is the Zilch, and he predicts that A wins, and A does win, who wins? A or D or both?
If he predicts that B and C will win, does the D win alone, or B, C and D all win?
What if he predicts that A and B will win, and only B wins?
What if he predicts that B will win but A and B win?

Can someone please clear this up for me point by point, I would be very very grateful!
 
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Todd France
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Don't worry about it, this one's kinda fuzzy. Go with whatever interpretation you like; just make sure all players sign off on it before you start.

FWIW, I'd interpret it like this:
If Zilch only predicts A to win, so long as A is one of the winners, Zilch also wins.
If Zilch predicts A & B to win, so long as A & B would both be winners, Zilch wins instead of anyone else who would've won.
 
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A-ha. Ok, I thought if A wins, D wins instead.
I'll have a word with the crew about confirming this is ok for all..

thanx!!!
 
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Todd France
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indidkid wrote:
A-ha. Ok, I thought if A wins, D wins instead.

Well, that's how the Eon version worked, which is why I'd use the Mayfair version...
 
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pseudotheist wrote:
indidkid wrote:
A-ha. Ok, I thought if A wins, D wins instead.

Well, that's how the Eon version worked, which is why I'd use the Mayfair version...


If I had to decide what version to use on my own, I'd shoot my self in the foot.

Luckily the gang will be responsible for the choice on the version...
 
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Ido Abelman
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you can also use my version if you want...
Quote:
I never played with zilch, but both editions have problems - in eon's the player you choose actually can't win, in mayfair's it's pretty hard to win alone. Which is why I thought of another version, based a little on the Bene Gesserit from dune - you choose both a player and a round number. If the player wins you win too, if he wins at the predicted round number you win alone. Might be worth testing.
 
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CBpegasus wrote:
you can also use my version if you want...
Quote:
I never played with zilch, but both editions have problems - in eon's the player you choose actually can't win, in mayfair's it's pretty hard to win alone. Which is why I thought of another version, based a little on the Bene Gesserit from dune - you choose both a player and a round number. If the player wins you win too, if he wins at the predicted round number you win alone. Might be worth testing.


I'd try this, but I can't see how this could be practically possible, except maybe foreseeing the possible range, for instance "That Guy, rouds 6-10"
 
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