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Dominion: Prosperity» Forums » Rules

Subject: When are you giong to use Platinum and Colony? rss

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Jason McClean
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The Prosperity rules state, "If only Kingdom cards from Prosperity are being used this game, then the Platinum and Colony piles are added to the Basic cards in the Supply for the game. If a mix of Kingdom cards from Prosperity and other sets are being used, then the inclusion of Platinum and Colony in the Supply should be determined randomly, based on the proportion of Prosperity and non-Prosperity cards in use."

It goes on to give one example of how to decide whether to include them or not (if the first Randomizer card flipped is from Prosperity, then use Platinum and Colony).

My question is: What is everyone else doing? What proportion is appropriate? If more than 1/2 the cards are Prosperity? If there are 3-5 Prosperity cards in the mix, similar to Alchemy? Other ideas?
 
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B C Z
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1) First card is as good a determiner as any.

2) Select your 10 cards, shuffle them up and reveal one - if it is from Prosperity, then include Colony/Platinum
(I leave it as an exercise to the reader to prove that #1 and #2 are mathematically identical).

3) Roll a d10, and if you roll the number of cards included or less, then include them.

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Jason McClean
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gf1024 wrote:
It's been discussed pages long in one of the card list threads around here. Basically, it's 10% per Prosperity card included. I will do the following: Roll D10 (numbered 0-9 for me), add the number of P cards to that. If the result is 10 or more, Colony is in.


Thank you. I admit, that I did not search very hard before starting this thread. I apologize for the duplicate topic.
 
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Matt E
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McJazz wrote:
Thank you. I admit, that I did not search very hard before starting this thread. I apologize for the duplicate topic.

Well, I'd say that it makes more sense to have a thread specifically for the topic rather than derailing another topic.

I personally will use a d10 to decide until the Dominion KingdomDeck app for the iPhone includes this feature.
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Jason McClean
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gf1024 wrote:
McJazz wrote:
gf1024 wrote:
It's been discussed pages long in one of the card list threads around here. Basically, it's 10% per Prosperity card included. I will do the following: Roll D10 (numbered 0-9 for me), add the number of P cards to that. If the result is 10 or more, Colony is in.


Thank you. I admit, that I did not search very hard before starting this thread. I apologize for the duplicate topic.

Apologies if I sounded harsh, never meant to. It's difficult to find something that is buried at the 4-7th page of a long topic with a title not even referring to what you want to find.


No worries.

I guess my biggest conflict has to do with the apparent contradiction in the rules. Let me explain:

If you flip over the first card from the randomizer deck to determine whether to use Prosperity, you would always have a 25:116 chance of using P & C or ~22%.

This would be completely unrelated to the "proportion of Prosperity and non-Prosperity cards in use" that the rules refers to.

It sounds like the intention is to shuffle the 10 radomizer cards chosen for that particular game and flip over the top one to determine the use of P & C. This appears (to me) to be the only method that satisfies both requirements according to the rules (almost).
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Matt E
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McJazz wrote:
I guess my biggest conflict has to do with the apparent contradiction in the rules. Let me explain:

If you flip over the first card from the randomizer deck to determine whether to use Prosperity, you would always have a 25:116 chance of using P & C or ~22%.

This would be completely unrelated to the "proportion of Prosperity and non-Prosperity cards in use" that the rules refers to.

It sounds like the intention is to shuffle the 10 radomizer cards chosen for that particular game and flip over the top one to determine the use of P & C. This appears (to me) to be the only method that satisfies both requirements according to the rules (almost).

The idea is that you shuffle the randomizer deck and flip the top card. If that card is from Prosperity, you use Platinum and Colony. Otherwise you don't. You put the flipped card in the set along with the next 9 cards in the randomizer deck.

Because the card that you're using to determine whether or not to use Platinum/Colony is part of the set of 10 Kingdom cards, you will have proportionally more Prosperity cards in the games with Platinum and Colony.

If you do the math, you'll discover that using the top card in your set of 10 to decide is exactly the same as shuffling the 10 cards (again) and picking the top one.
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Jason McClean
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gf1024 wrote:
McJazz wrote:
No worries.

I guess my biggest conflict has to do with the apparent contradiction in the rules. Let me explain:

If you flip over the first card from the randomizer deck to determine whether to use Prosperity, you would always have a 25:116 chance of using P & C or ~22%.

This would be completely unrelated to the "proportion of Prosperity and non-Prosperity cards in use" that the rules refers to.

It sounds like the intention is to shuffle the 10 radomizer cards chosen for that particular game and flip over the top one to determine the use of P & C. This appears (to me) to be the only method that satisfies both requirements according to the rules (almost).

The funny thing is that the exact same argument happened in that other thread, which, after pages of discussion, reasoning, and making simulations eventually proved that the rulebook version and the D10 version are indeed the exact same. Just believe me please.


Done. Thank you for your time and quick responses.
 
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Drew Spencer
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McJazz wrote:
If you flip over the first card from the randomizer deck to determine whether to use Prosperity, you would always have a 25:116 chance of using P & C or ~22%.

This would be completely unrelated to the "proportion of Prosperity and non-Prosperity cards in use" that the rules refers to.


It's an interesting puzzle, but the answer is that the two methods are actually identical. The other thread took four pages of explaining this over and over in different ways before everyone reading finally got it; it's very counter-intuitive.

Rather than attempting to explain it one way or another, here's the link to the other thread that explains it lots of different ways.
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Tim Stellmach
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banyan wrote:
It's an interesting puzzle, but the answer is that the two methods are actually identical. The other thread took four pages of explaining this over and over in different ways before everyone reading finally got it; it's very counter-intuitive.

It is?? To me, it's obvious at first glance.

I don't make any claims about what it means that it's obvious to me at first glance. I'm just saying I'm very surprised.
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Drew Spencer
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timstellmach wrote:
banyan wrote:
It's an interesting puzzle, but the answer is that the two methods are actually identical. The other thread took four pages of explaining this over and over in different ways before everyone reading finally got it; it's very counter-intuitive.

It is?? To me, it's obvious at first glance.

I don't make any claims about what it means that it's obvious to me at first glance. I'm just saying I'm very surprised.


I'm sure it's obvious at first glance to some people. The fact that discussion of it went on for four pages and the fact that OP didn't realize they were the same should make it even more obvious that others don't think so. Funny that you didn't catch that. I'm not making any claims about what it means that you didn't catch that, I'm just saying it's funny. whistle
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Chris Hamm
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My entire gaming group uses them both in every game of Dominion we play now.
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Joseph
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Re: When are you going to use Platinum and Colony?
I find that games with are very different than games without.

Don't cheat yourself by always including them.
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Rick Teverbaugh
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jcaraway wrote:
I find that games with are very different than games without.

Don't cheat yourself by always including them.


Yes. I very, very much agree with that.
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Gwommy the Purple
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jcaraway wrote:
I find that games with are very different than games without.

Don't cheat yourself by always including them.

I can agree with this. I don't like the 10% rule. Instead, we just decide if we want a longer or shorter game. If we want a longer game, then we'll include Colony and Platinum.
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Wei-Hwa Huang
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gwommy wrote:
jcaraway wrote:
I find that games with are very different than games without.

Don't cheat yourself by always including them.

I can agree with this. I don't like the 10% rule. Instead, we just decide if we want a longer or shorter game. If we want a longer game, then we'll include Colony and Platinum.


The presence of Attack cards and/or Action branching is going to have a much bigger impact on the length of the game than the presence of Colony and Platinum.
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Steven Metzger
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As often as possible.

I love the added length that these cards give to the game - I'm suprised how instantly I adopted them, but the game feels more dynamic now than it ever did before.
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Vince Lupo
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I imagine we'll just throw them into every game for a while. I don't even see a reason why we wouldn't just always use them.
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Vince Lupo
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Neo42 wrote:
I imagine we'll just throw them into every game for a while. I don't even see a reason why we wouldn't just always use them.



Or, we'll throw in Platinum and Colony when we know we will be comfortable with possibly adding some time to the game, AND/OR when we use randomizer cards and have enough high cost cards that we decide it's a good idea.

There are plenty of pre-prosperity setups that are expensive AND/OR provide a lot of buying power.
 
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Gerald Katz
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My preference is to have Platinum and Colony available regardless of the number of Prosperity Kingdom cards in play. It's already not unheard of to have 11+ coin on a turn using just the basic set. Estate, Copper, Silver, Silver, Adventurer. Play Adventurer and get 2 Gold from the draw.

I expect games to last a bit longer as people try for Colonies, and I want that. With the people I play with, they usually don't want to play a second game, so I want the game to last longer to enjoy the play more. I'd propose a house rule not to have the game end when Provinces are out, but I wouldn't be insistent on it. Without that house rule, it is already an interesting decision of what to buy when you have 9 coin. The house rule would give Platinum the edge.
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Chris Olsen
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I think part of this relies on how you use your randomizer deck. Based on the majority of this dicussion, I'm assuming most players shuffle them all together and simply draw the top 10?

I keep each randomizer deck separate so that I can ensure a certain # from each expansion if wanted. We also usually draw every 3rd/4th card from each deck to randomize the shuffling a bit more. This could also be done with one large randomizer deck.
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Since gencon I have played at least 50 games with the new set. My group always uses them. I think it adds a new level of stratgy to the game since it changes the game from the provence grab to a game with more options.
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Rick Teverbaugh
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oklahomageek wrote:
Since gencon I have played at least 50 games with the new set. My group always uses them. I think it adds a new level of stratgy to the game since it changes the game from the provence grab to a game with more options.


to keep the new cards in all of the time is against the spirit of Dominion in my opinion. One of Dominion's strengths is that it changes from game to game. The lone exception to that had been the victory cards. The treasure cards already changed once with the inclusion of the potion cards when Alchemy cards were part of the kingdom cards selection. So I say to embrace the Platinum and Colony cards but do it by following the suggested rules. Those two cards do change the game and I believe it would be a shame if they changed it all the time and forever.
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oklahomageek wrote:
Since gencon I have played at least 50 games with the new set. My group always uses them. I think it adds a new level of stratgy to the game since it changes the game from the provence grab to a game with more options.


Agreed. It used to be that having 9 or more coins meant to the player, "time to buy a province", but now you have some considerations. Get platinum to make colonies easier? Is the province stack low and am I behind?
 
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rickert wrote:
oklahomageek wrote:
Since gencon I have played at least 50 games with the new set. My group always uses them. I think it adds a new level of stratgy to the game since it changes the game from the provence grab to a game with more options.


to keep the new cards in all of the time is against the spirit of Dominion in my opinion. One of Dominion's strengths is that it changes from game to game. The lone exception to that had been the victory cards. The treasure cards already changed once with the inclusion of the potion cards when Alchemy cards were part of the kingdom cards selection. So I say to embrace the Platinum and Colony cards but do it by following the suggested rules. Those two cards do change the game and I believe it would be a shame if they changed it all the time and forever.



Also agreed. I see it both ways. In fact, it would be interesting to play identical kingdom card setups 2 games in a row except for adding/removing platinum + colony to see how it changes.

Perhaps you could even keep a running total for the two games. The Colonies would raise the stakes.
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Allan B.
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Once I get Prosperity, there's going to be a good amount of experimentation.
One thing I'm considering doing is having Colony in at all times, but only put Platinum in if there's 4 or more Prosperity cards.
 
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