Geoff Burkman
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Kettering
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This 2-Player match filled the wait for a new victim potential initiate to the rigors of abstract subsistence farming, and also marks JimmyO’s first 2-player match of “FotM.” As Constant Reader may recall, I’m not a big fan of the 2-player game, no matter what the version being played, but I’m amenable nonetheless. Deal ten, drop three, which takes all of about a minute, and we’re off…

Round One/MIMI
Geoff (#6) – Occ/Clay Worker
Jimmy (#7) – 1R(1)
Geoff – FT(2W)
Jimmy – 1H –1f
Geoff – 3W(3) + 1C
Jimmy – SP + Landing Net (-1R)

Once again, I open play with a journeyman Ock that, in this instance, outperforms even the munificent Clay Deliveryman as a long-term clay source. Jimmy responds with a decidedly atypical solo reed grab that will shortly explain itself. I pick up sticks, Jimmy buys a premature horse (a mistake, I suspect; visiting the Fair would have been better), I set the Clay Worker on the wood, and Jimmy swipes the button to get out the Landing Net, which will soon prove itself to be both a blessing and a curse.

Round Two/Fences
Jimmy – Occ/Pieceworker
Geoff – 1C(2+1)
Jimmy – CP(3fl)
Geoff – BM/Clay Supports (-2W)
Jimmy – 3W(3 +1 –1f)
Geoff – 1R(1)

Jimmy begins building his own Ock retinue with the always dangerous Pieceworker; he’ll use it a dozen times over the course of the game. Realizing that reed denial is never going to be workable, I promptly take the clay. Jimmy fuels up, I burn off a fuelwood to get some room-building relief, Jimmy gathers enhanced wood (an arguably mistaken use of the Pieceworker—cf. Round Four—but Constant Reader will note that it gets put to exacting use), and I spit in the Landing Net’s general direction by taking a solo reed myself. Without card support, there’s only one way to fray the Landing Net’s power.

Round Three/Sheep
Jimmy – 1R(1 +1 +1f)
Geoff – Fish(3f)
Jimmy – FT(2W)
Geoff – CW/Fp2
Jimmy – Occ(-1f)/Carpenter
Geoff – SP + Plowhorse Market (-1C)

Jimmy blocks reed, using the Net and the Pieceworker in tandem; I fish to establish a comfort zone. Jimmy clears a Forest tile, and I respond by burning off a wood and my spare food to buy a fireplace. Jimmy ocks a decent expansion discount, to which I respond by swiping the button to ease acquisition of horses, although I find myself unable to take advantage until the endgame (I may as well have played the Minor hearth I eventually get out in Round Eleven, but the truth is that it ultimately doesn’t matter). As it stands, I’ve been keeping a close eye on Jimmy’s supplies and have the makings of a fine trap in mind.

Round Four/Sow & Bake
Geoff – 1R(1)
Jimmy – 3W(6)
Geoff – CP(3fl)
Jimmy – HF(1f)
Geoff – DL(2f)
Jimmy – Fish(1f)

Logic might well say, “Take the timber,” but I have other things in mind, as well as a much greater need for reed, which I confiscate in all its singular glory. Jimmy falls upon the stacked lumber, I quickly fuel up, and Jimmy now realizes the depths of trouble into which he has stumbled. He visits the Fair to no avail; I visit the DL and Jimmy is faced with an inevitable Begging Card. Dismayed and glum, he fishes, pulling up the proverbial old boot.

Round Five/Family Growth + MI
Geoff – 1C(3+1)
Jimmy – 1R(1+1+1f)
Geoff – HF(1f)
Jimmy – CP(3fl)
Geoff – Sheep(3)burn2
Jimmy – BR(2) + 2s

With adequate reed in hand, I concentrate on blocking clay; every little bit helps. Jimmy hits up the reed again, and I can see what’s coming. I snack, Jimmy fuels up, I send woolies to their maker, and Jimmy bangs out two rooms and breeding stables. Ouch. This is “FotM,” however, and he may yet come to regret the move, perhaps even more so than the Begging Card he just got saddled with…

Round Six/Stone
Geoff – 3W(6) + 1C
Jimmy – 1H –1f
Geoff – CP(3fl)
Jimmy – Fish(2f)
Geoff – Occ(-1f)/Traveling Salesman
Jimmy – FG + Sawhorse (-2W)

I clear the timber, and Jimmy tempts fate by adding another horse to facilitate breeding. I fuel up, Jimmy weakly restocks food, and I pop out an Ock I’ll use several times to limited effect. Jimmy now adds a new hire and forks over the 2Wood for the Sawhorse. Regrettably, he’ll never get to cash in on the pre-paid stable, having already built all the rooms he’s going to get.

Round Seven/Renovation + MIMI
Geoff – 1C(2+1)
Jimmy – FG + House Goat
Geoff – HF(1f)
Jimmy – DL(2f)
Geoff – FT(2W)
Jimmy – 1R(2) +2f
Geoff – Ren>C + Fp2>CH4

Again, I swipe the clay; Jimmy simply isn’t going to get any until he bites the bullet. Meanwhile, he adds another worker and plays the Minor he probably should have played back in Round One. I snack, Jimmy is forced to DL to give himself a chance to avoid another Begging Card, and I now err by not stomping all over the reed. Write it off to generosity, perhaps, or the simple fact that I need to grow. I gather sticks, instead, and Jimmy quickly takes the reed to clinch the Landing Net bonus and provide for his family. I can live with that, and respond with renovation and a cookery upgrade. At this point, I’m actually ahead by one action, 22-21. What remains to be seen is if I can make up for the deficit in Person actions in time to properly compete (or if I’ll even need to…)

Round Eight/Boar
Geoff – BR(1) + 2s
Jimmy – 3W(6)
Geoff – CP(3fl)
Jimmy – HF(1f)
Geoff – FG + x
Jimmy – 1C(1+1-1f)
Jimmy – MIMI/Fp2
Jimmy – Sheep(3)burn3

I open the midgame with my first expansion and a pair of stables; Jimmy hauls in the stacked lumber. I fuel up, Jimmy snacks, and I add a worker. Why I didn’t bother to upgrade my hearth to a Cookhouse is beyond me, although it’s really not terribly critical one way or the other. Jimmy then leisurely (or frantically, as one’s perspective may or may not see fit) pieceworks enough clay to buy a fireplace, and then torches the trembling woolies.

Round Nine/Vegetables
Geoff – Boar(2)
Jimmy – 1S(4)
Geoff – 1R(2)
Jimmy – CP(3fl)
Geoff – HF(1f)
Jimmy – 3W(3)
Geoff – BR(1) + 1s
Jimmy – Fences (8+4)
Jimmy – Fish(3f)

Ever wary of starvation, I herd the piggies as insurance. Jimmy gloms the cut-rate stone, I take the reed, Jimmy fuels up, and I snack. Jimmy hauls wood (and I suspect that, at this point, he’d have profited more by blocking me by building a stable or two), and I quickly build another clay room on the cheap, plus another stable. Jimmy fences adjoining 2x1 and 3x1 pastures, and does a little fishing. I burn off my wooly at harvest (collecting a newborn shoat), and Jimmy sloughs a wood to effect heating. His Donnybrook still awaits…

Round Ten/Cattle
Geoff – 1C(2+1)
Jimmy – FT(2W)
Geoff – SP + Fp3
Jimmy – CW/Basketmaker’s Workshop
Geoff – FG + CH4>Cookhouse
Jimmy – 1S(1+1-1f)
Jimmy – 1R(1+1+1f)
Jimmy – MIMI/Basket Stall
Jimmy – Occ(-1f)/Clay Plasterer

Once more into the breach; I block Jimmy from taking clay. He clears a Forest tile, I reply by stepping on the button to pick up another fireplace (Why? Because it’s what I can afford), Jimmy nabs the reed machine, and I add my fourth worker and finally upgrade my hearth. Jimmy—amazingly—has full run of the board with a full complement of Family Members; I haven’t encountered a situation quite like that in a long time (if ever). I will leave Constant Reader to the task of parsing the correctness of what he did with those four benighted workers, but one thing is certain: reed is now a wild card resource for him, renovation will be dirt cheap once he can actually get his mitts on another brick of clay, and the action count stands at Jimmy – 37 and Geoff – 32. That does not give me great reason for confidence. However, I do see one weakness in Jimmy’s farm, and hope to exploit it if he’s not careful…

Round Eleven/Stone
Geoff – Cattle(2)burn2boar
Jimmy – Sheep(3)burn3
Geoff – 3W(6)
Jimmy – 1R(1+1+1f)
Geoff – FT(2W)
Jimmy – 1C(1)
Geoff – BM/Fp3>Cooking Hearth
Jimmy – FT(2W) –2f
Geoff – Boar(2)burn2
Jimmy – Fish(2f)
Geoff – BR(1) + 1s

First, I swap cattle for boar in order to keep the home fires burning. Jimmy torches the woolies for similar reasons. I haul the 6Wood, and Jimmy clutches with another bolstered reed grab. I promptly clear a Forest tile, and Jimmy realizes he is in trouble. In fact, he’s so discombobulated that he impulsively confiscates the lone clay, a terrible, terrible mistake. I burn off a fuel to upgrade my fireplace, a really useless move beyond making that special action expensive for Jimmy. He coughs hard to obtain the last available timber, I quickly flambé the roaming piglets, Jimmy desperately fishes, and I build another clay room and my last stable. I’m forced to burn off a 2Wood for heating, but Jimmy has to torch a 3Wood and still incurs the onus of an illin’ worker.

Round Twelve/Family Growth w/o
Geoff – 1S(2)
Jimmy – FT(2W)
Geoff – BM/Oven Damper (3fl –2S)
Jimmy – MIMI/Stone Oven
Geoff – 1S(2)
Jimmy – 1R(1+1+1f)
Geoff – 1C(1+1)
Jimmy – Ren>C + Well (2f>
Geoff – FG + Heating Stove
Jimmy – Inf (1f)

It’s not very efficient, but I forage for rocks. Jimmy clears another Forest tile, and I turn my rocks into points and a “free” fuel-up. Jimmy buys an oven, I take more stone, Jimmy picks up some wild cards, and I spike the clay. Jimmy renovates and claims another hefty Major, I add my final worker and eliminate the last of my heating worries, and Jimmy trucks his last dude to the Infirmary. Despite the action deficit, I’m feeling much better about my current standing…

Round Thirteen/Plow & Sow
Geoff – 3W(6) + 1C
Jimmy – 1R(1+1+1f)
Geoff – Occ(-1f)/Layabout
Jimmy – Cattle(2)
Geoff – FT(2W)
Jimmy – 1H –1f
Geoff – 1V
Jimmy – Boar(2)burn2
Geoff – 1G
Jimmy – FT(2W) –2f
Geoff – P&S (PF + 1Vf) +(1H-1f)
Jimmy – Sheep(2)burn2

I appropriate the last stacked wood the game is going to offer, Jimmy counters with another pieceworked reed haul, and I obviate supply concerns with the Layabout. Jimmy herds the cows, and I put on the pressure by clearing another Forest tile. Jimmy picks up a meaningless horse, I erase the veggie negative, Jimmy restocks bacon, and I erase the other seedling negative. Jimmy coughs hard to prevent more illin’ workers, I farm for effect, putting the long dormant Plowhorse Market to first use, and Jimmy torches woolies to top off supplies. At harvest, he’s forced to burn off his last 3Wood, but at least his poor cattle breed.

Round Fourteen/Renovation + Fences
Geoff – 3W(3)
Jimmy – 1R(1+1+1f)
Geoff – Fences (14)
Jimmy – 1S(2+1-1f)
Geoff – SB(PF)
Jimmy – 1H –1f
Geoff – P&S (PF) +(1H-1f)
Jimmy – 1S(2+1-1f)
Geoff – (b2c) CW/Horse Slaughterhouse –2f
Jimmy – Ren>S + Kiln
Geoff – Sheep(1)
Geoff – Occ(-1f)/Master Builder (BR(1))

I top off lumber while simultaneously forcing Jimmy to take enhanced reed or suffer a heating calamity, I then fence off the usual six spaces (and all my stables), Jimmy hauls granite, and we do the specials tango. I plow a last field and buy a stallion, Jimmy lades a final rockpile, and I torch a pair of bulls to help pay for a last Major. Jimmy spiffs up his domicile and grabs the Kiln for a final five points, and I close the proceedings by erasing a last categorical negative and filling in my remaining empty farmyard space. At harvest, I burn off a veggie/grain combo, while Jimmy roasts a pair of cattle and pays for heating with the reed. His corral of horses is impressive and his stone house outshines my large clay hovel, but the rest of Jimmy’s farm lies somewhat barren; will his hefty tally of card points carry the day?

Final Score (Occupations Played, Minors/Majors Played)(Wood taken/bonus)(Rounds as Starting Player)(Total Primary/Secondary/Tertiary Actions)(Points Per Primary Action)(Food Spent)
Primary Actions are those actions first taken when a player claims a space with a family member. In sessions of Farmers on the Moor, special actions are counted as Primary actions, with their subtotal indicated in parentheses. Secondary Actions are the “extra” actions allowed by certain spaces, such as a Minor Improvement when taking Starting Player, or Baking after Sowing. Tertiary Actions are all other “extra” actions enabled via card play or the seasonal rules of the “Through the Seasons” variant. Note that the “TtS” variant has two Action Spaces that allow Secondary Actions: Spring and Autumn.

Geoff – 47 (4 Occ, 4/4)(32/0)(2)(56(16)/9/12)(0.839)(51)
Jimmy – 33 (3 Occ, 3/6)(28/5)(12)(58(15)/6/21)(0.569)(61)

Player Fields Pastures Grain Veg Sheep Boar Cattle Unused Stables House Peeps Pts Bonus
Geoff 3(2) 3(3) 2(1) 1(1) 1(1) 1(1) 1(1+3) 0(0) 4(4) 6C(6) 5(15) (8) (1)
Jimmy 0(-1) 2(2) 0(-1) 0(-1) 0(-1) 0(-1) 1(1+8) 6(-6) 2(2) 4S(8) 4(12) (14) (-3)


Bits & Pieces
Interesting that, much like my implosion in last report’s game, Jimmy’s early action advantage led to gross inefficiencies and ultimately a lowered score. He vied well for specials, and maintained his early lead in person actions (and incidentally went first for the bulk of the game), but I’m thinking that over-reliance on the Pieceworker is what led to his ultimate destruction, even beyond the tactical pressures of doubled expansion in the second Stage.
With Jimmy’s hand, I would have opened with a button heist and the House Goat, danced the specials waltz, then either DL’ed or if I was feeling feisty, spiked the clay. In Round Two, I then take the reed, pogo the specials, and step on the button (if available) to get out the Net. From there on I deny reed, ock the Carpenter, get one room built, grow, and then I think about getting the Pieceworker into play.
I’ll leave any further parsing to Constant Reader, should he or she be so moved. I have to admit, half the fun of posting these reports is seeing what outside observers have to say about the strategy and tactics of our play. Groupthink is a powerful (and often misleading) force, and I find it very instructive to receive input from otherwise unaffected sources.

Enough blather. Thanks for reading, and happy gaming to all! Next report: very possibly.

Edit: one small oversight corrected in Round Two commentary.
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Mike T
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Very nice demonstration of the 2p Resource fight.
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Bill Allen
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Thanks for another report. I think you Agricola reports are my only 'must read' Agricola reports, as I enjoy the way you describe the game.
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Mike Young
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We play way, way too nice here. I really need to play more resource fighting games or I will continue to be Scorm.

OK, so you see, I'm the best Agricola player in our group, winning at least 90% of the games. I went to WBC last year and was crushed, crushed at Agricola. I write LARPs. One LARP I wrote involved a goblin named Scorm who was the smartest, wisest, and most powerful of all the goblins. I likened his meeting the rest of the game to being a 9 year old surrounded by 5 year olds your whole life and then meeting adults. And that was my Agricola experience at WBC. I am Scorm.
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Mike T
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Buggy wrote:
We play way, way too nice here. I really need to play more resource fighting games or I will continue to be Scorm.

OK, so you see, I'm the best Agricola player in our group, winning at least 90% of the games. I went to WBC last year and was crushed, crushed at Agricola. I write LARPs. One LARP I wrote involved a goblin named Scorm who was the smartest, wisest, and most powerful of all the goblins. I likened his meeting the rest of the game to being a 9 year old surrounded by 5 year olds your whole life and then meeting adults. And that was my Agricola experience at WBC. I am Scorm.


Come play at play-agricola.com. All Scorm needs is a little time playing with giants, and soon those adults won't look so tough. I mean that seriously. This year 3 of the 4 players at the final WBC table were regulars on the site. Fine players, the lot of them, but not at the level of the true titans in online play.
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Geoff Burkman
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GeminiWeb wrote:
Thanks for another report. I think you Agricola reports are my only 'must read' Agricola reports, as I enjoy the way you describe the game.


Thanks, Bill (and Mike as well); as long as people enjoy them, I'll keep cranking them out, or at least until I crack a hundred, maybe.
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Geoff Burkman
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smcmike wrote:
Buggy wrote:
We play way, way too nice here. I really need to play more resource fighting games or I will continue to be Scorm.

OK, so you see, I'm the best Agricola player in our group, winning at least 90% of the games. I went to WBC last year and was crushed, crushed at Agricola. I write LARPs. One LARP I wrote involved a goblin named Scorm who was the smartest, wisest, and most powerful of all the goblins. I likened his meeting the rest of the game to being a 9 year old surrounded by 5 year olds your whole life and then meeting adults. And that was my Agricola experience at WBC. I am Scorm.


Come play at play-agricola.com. All Scorm needs is a little time playing with giants, and soon those adults won't look so tough. I mean that seriously. This year 3 of the 4 players at the final WBC table were regulars on the site. Fine players, the lot of them, but not at the level of the true titans in online play.


Don'tses feel too bad, Scorm. We likeses all sorts of farming peoples. All of thems is precioussssss....yes, they are....

And, Mike? Mike's right. Just watch out for that Tacitus fellow, though...whistle
 
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Rob S
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Our 2-player games are usually a little different to yours - I think you somewhat undervalue the special actions. For example, our first round actions are nearly always:

Player 1: FT or CP.
Player 2: HF(1F)
Player 1: Occ
Player 2: 3W
Player 1: DL(2F)
Player 2: SP + minor

Round 2:

Player 2: 2C if sheep turned, 2R if not
Player 1: The other of the two
Player 2: FT or CP
Player 1: HF

The special actions cards are nearly always taken first early on, with the notable exception of round two and if the following are on the board: 3C, 6W, 3S, 3 sheep.

I also noted 6W was ignored in lieu of another move - in our games 6W would only be ignored if FG w/o room, P&S, 4S or 3C were available. We consider 6W to be about equal to 3S (stone we consider the most important resource unless clay is particularly scarce that game).

I was interested to see FG w/o room was not even taken on the round it turned - in our games this card is the most sought after of all the round cards, and it is not unknown for a player to take SP as their first move in round 11 to ensure they get this card first. P&S has similar if slightly less desirability, and is taken as a first action in nearly all circumstances when FG w/o room is not available.
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Mike T
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zHunter wrote:

The special actions cards are nearly always taken first early on, with the notable exception of round two and if the following are on the board: 3C, 6W, 3S, 3 sheep.

I also noted 6W was ignored in lieu of another move - in our games 6W would only be ignored if FG w/o room, P&S, 4S or 3C were available. We consider 6W to be about equal to 3S (stone we consider the most important resource unless clay is particularly scarce that game).

I was interested to see FG w/o room was not even taken on the round it turned - in our games this card is the most sought after of all the round cards, and it is not unknown for a player to take SP as their first move in round 11 to ensure they get this card first. P&S has similar if slightly less desirability, and is taken as a first action in nearly all circumstances when FG w/o room is not available.


The thing is, Geoff passing on 6w in Round 4 was the play of the game! It gave him the resources for a room, and simultaneously gave Jimmy a Beggar. In other words, context matters! If you follow some set hierarchy of actions, your opponent might just eat your lunch.

I agree that Jimmy should have taken FG w/o in 12, but disagree that's it's always the best move in a 2p game. It's unusual in most 2p games that I play for either player to have fewer than 4 peeps going into Round 12. That means that if one player takes FG in 12, with a first action, the other can take it in 13, with a last action. Depending on what else is available in 12, it's a decision worth thinking about.
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This looked similar to my 2 player experiences. Heating is a serious issue in FOTM 2 player in many games because of limited wood, possibility of no ovens purchased (thus no stoves), and resource denial for renovating.
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Bryann Turner
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MisterG wrote:
smcmike wrote:
Buggy wrote:
We play way, way too nice here. I really need to play more resource fighting games or I will continue to be Scorm.

OK, so you see, I'm the best Agricola player in our group, winning at least 90% of the games. I went to WBC last year and was crushed, crushed at Agricola. I write LARPs. One LARP I wrote involved a goblin named Scorm who was the smartest, wisest, and most powerful of all the goblins. I likened his meeting the rest of the game to being a 9 year old surrounded by 5 year olds your whole life and then meeting adults. And that was my Agricola experience at WBC. I am Scorm.


Come play at play-agricola.com. All Scorm needs is a little time playing with giants, and soon those adults won't look so tough. I mean that seriously. This year 3 of the 4 players at the final WBC table were regulars on the site. Fine players, the lot of them, but not at the level of the true titans in online play.


Don'tses feel too bad, Scorm. We likeses all sorts of farming peoples. All of thems is precioussssss....yes, they are....

And, Mike? Mike's right. Just watch out for that Tacitus fellow, though...:whistle:



OOooooohhh! Does this mean you're on the site now? What's the name? I'd love to play a game or three with you.
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Geoff Burkman
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zHunter wrote:
Our 2-player games are usually a little different to yours - I think you somewhat undervalue the special actions. For example, our first round actions are nearly always:

Player 1: FT or CP.
Player 2: HF(1F)
Player 1: Occ
Player 2: 3W
Player 1: DL(2F)
Player 2: SP + minor

Round 2:

Player 2: 2C if sheep turned, 2R if not
Player 1: The other of the two
Player 2: FT or CP
Player 1: HF

The special actions cards are nearly always taken first early on, with the notable exception of round two and if the following are on the board: 3C, 6W, 3S, 3 sheep.


In 2-Player, this is primarily a function of what the first player does. If a special is snagged, then the 2d player's response will almost always be to take the other one, out of self-defense if nothing else. I have also noted, in a number of prior reports (either on this board or over on the regular Agricola board) that Ron has a distinct tendency to take a special as his first move in a Round, although I have yet to determine if this is a strong winning strategy.

To be honest with you, if it turns out that immediate grabbing of specials is a truly dominant, winning strategy, that is going to lessen my interest in "FotM" games a great deal. However, I do not think it is, so I'm not overly concerned at this point.

My contention would be that special actions are important and must be paid attention to, but they're not so important that they demand being swarmed each and every Round. Like normal Person actions, they produce about one point each (theoretically, of course), but they're no more important than those normal actions, and in fact can be over-used, to the offending player's detriment (cf. several of my prior reports detailing just such abuse).

Quote:
I also noted 6W was ignored in lieu of another move - in our games 6W would only be ignored if FG w/o room, P&S, 4S or 3C were available. We consider 6W to be about equal to 3S (stone we consider the most important resource unless clay is particularly scarce that game).


Mike pretty much covered this one with his cogent response. I will add that I agree that a 6Wood is, for the most part, a priority play, but there are additional considerations, mostly revolving around blocking strategies. I disagree that stone is the most important resource in the game, particularly the front half of it, but much of that discussion depends on defining "important." For me, "important" mostly means making sure that I score the most points by game's end. That's a parameter that depends on a fair enough number of variables that I'm hesitant to label any given resource acquisition or special action play as critical or "important."

Still, if you really, really wanted to pin me down on it, I'd have to say that food is, by and large, the most "important" resource in the game. Without it, you cannot win.

Quote:
I was interested to see FG w/o room was not even taken on the round it turned - in our games this card is the most sought after of all the round cards, and it is not unknown for a player to take SP as their first move in round 11 to ensure they get this card first. P&S has similar if slightly less desirability, and is taken as a first action in nearly all circumstances when FG w/o room is not available.


You noted, I trust, that I had no immediate use for FG w/o in the relevant Round, since I had room for normal growth and a piggybacked Imp. Jimmy's failure to take it was most likely a function of having one of his worker's sick in bed; otherwise, he racked up a hefty number of points that Round.

Beyond that, the Ugoi tend to play just as you describe: somebody jumps the button in Round Eleven to make sure they get first crack at whichever card turns up in Twelve. Once again, though, everything still depends on what the player's needs are and what else is up for grabs on the board.

Good post, though, Rob, and I thank you for that.
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Geoff Burkman
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btizo wrote:


OOooooohhh! Does this mean you're on the site now? What's the name? I'd love to play a game or three with you.


Bryann, I am sorry to have gotten your hopes up. I only knew that Mike is Tacitus from various posts he's made. Iirc, I did get myself registered on the site as MisterG (or something very close to it), but have since then never gone back. Sad to admit it, but I am extremely leery of the potential time-sink the site threatens to offer/pose/create. Most assuredly, this is nothing against anyone there, yourself included, but is more a reflection of my self-awareness of my own tendencies online. Perhaps someday, though...

And needless to say, if you're ever in the Greater Dayton area...let me know.
 
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Bryann Turner
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I understand. It's very easy to play 2-3 games in a row and not realize that 4 hours have gone by, so I don't blame you for staying away.

I gave it up, too... for about a month, and now I'm playing again... It's a wonderful game and a great site, so it's not just the game but the players and the good times that bring me back again and again.

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Rob S
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I missed a couple of things thanks to writing my reply at work without reading through the report again - clearly the move to force a begging card grab was superior to the 6W grab. I also didn't remember that you could do normal FG rather than FG w/o room in round 12; and I'm pleased to see your group usually values it as highly as mine.

With regards to the special actions, do you value the two cards equally? We value the FT/CP card much higher than the HF card in the early game, thus the first player usually takes that card. This is due to us considering 3W and occupation to be much closer in value than the two special action cards at that early stage, even with strong early game occupations such as clay mixer. If player 1 takes occupation, player 2 then snaffles the better special action card. The interesting point happens if player 1 then takes 3W - Player 2 gets two unopposed actions, but player 1 has already taken the best two actions, leaving player 2 with something like SP and DL, or even take a grain/plow (something I think is very weak in round one). If player 1 instead responds with HF, then player 2 takes 3W and has, in our eyes, gained out of the exchange due to getting the better special action card.

On another note, what do you consider to be the strongest 2-p occupations in FoTM? There aren't that many occs, and once you've played a few games you tend to see the same ones a lot. In my experience the strongest occs have been Clay Mixer, Clay Worker, Wood Distributor and Mushroom Collector. Basically anything that gives you a measure of control over the flow of the important early game resources.
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Mike T
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Don't forget the Resource Seller!
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Geoff Burkman
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zHunter wrote:
...With regards to the special actions, do you value the two cards equally? We value the FT/CP card much higher than the HF card in the early game, thus the first player usually takes that card. This is due to us considering 3W and occupation to be much closer in value than the two special action cards at that early stage, even with strong early game occupations such as clay mixer. If player 1 takes occupation, player 2 then snaffles the better special action card. The interesting point happens if player 1 then takes 3W - Player 2 gets two unopposed actions, but player 1 has already taken the best two actions, leaving player 2 with something like SP and DL, or even take a grain/plow (something I think is very weak in round one). If player 1 instead responds with HF, then player 2 takes 3W and has, in our eyes, gained out of the exchange due to getting the better special action card.


Bear in mind I'm not a great proponent of the 2-player game, although I've certainly played a good number of them (though not a great deal of "FotM" 2-player games). Second, I'll assume we're discussing Level 3 games here. That said, the Ugoi tend to go for the best Person actions first, then dance the specials tango. I hesitate to ascribe "best" to either special, since I think it depends on where your game is going, but sure, an early CP gives you fuel to use with the BM/CW card, for instance, or in Stage Two, if Stone pops first, the player may well value a horse to facilitate the use of the Kiln.

Guess I'm just feeling wishy-washy when I say, "It all depends."

Quote:
On another note, what do you consider to be the strongest 2-p occupations in FoTM? There aren't that many occs, and once you've played a few games you tend to see the same ones a lot. In my experience the strongest occs have been Clay Mixer, Clay Worker, Wood Distributor and Mushroom Collector. Basically anything that gives you a measure of control over the flow of the important early game resources.


What Mike said (Resource Seller), and man, do I hate the Wood Distributor. Could be because I haven't mastered it yet, though. Other 1+ Ocks I like a good deal would be Field Watchman (but usually not until midgame--I've learned my lesson about early grain gambits), Market Woman (ditto), Pieceworker (again, usually later than earlier, and you have to be careful what you use him on, but he can certainly negate most denial gambits by a determined opponent), Wet Nurse, of course, but the Ugoi long ago banned her from 2-player games, Chamberlain (late game, duh), Hedge Keeper, Wood & Clay Deliveryman, Wood Collector (early only--if you have to pay a food for him, he's not worthy), Seasonal Worker.

Much of the valuation of such Ocks depends as well on what Minors the player has that may synergize appropriately.
 
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