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Axis & Allies Europe 1940» Forums » Strategy

Subject: This version compared to 'Traditional A&A' rss

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Griffin Johnson
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Hi,

I was talking to a couple of my friends about this game and they asserted that the 'traditional' Axis and Allies game was broken in that Germany could eliminate Russia within 2 turns fairly predictably.

If that is the case, and I'll assume it so since they have played it more than I have, has this been fixed in this version with Russia being neutral and how so?

Since I can't find the rules for this game online yet I am going by what I have read that Germany can declare war on anyone at anytime.

Have the starting forces on either side been 'nerfed' or bulked up to prevent this from happening in the 1940's version?

Thanks for you info.


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Dr ?
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I assume you are talking about the original AA Europe.

There is no way to kill Russia that quickly in this game. No force is "nerfed" per se, but Russia is really large and Moscow is not on the border. THere are a few issues with the Europe version (see elsewhere for opinions on this), though when added to global, is an impressive interesting game. I heartily recommend AAE40
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Griffin Johnson
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Actually, I was referring to good old fashioned A&A. I am guessing the map change probably has a lot to do with Moscow not longer being as vulnerable.

From what I recall, there was a choke-point in the old game that if you took it, you could threaten Moscow and protect the entire eastern front?

In this game, you can threaten the Russian capital but cannot also protect your eastern border with one/two large forces?

If so, that's really cool. I am definitely going to be playing this soon.

Thanks for the info!
 
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Dr ?
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there are some good territories to have, but no, there are multiple approaches. There is no such thing as holding Karelia and blocking everyone. In a recent game, I had mechanized infantry and tanks ready to run into any available gap. if presented. It is really a hard fought victory against a skilled Russian player.

Then again, in the old AA, event taking Russia was not an automatic win since Germany often was threatened wtih her forces far from home. But in sum, this is a VERY different setup. It is probably closer to Europe Engulfed considering territories than it is to the original game. Check out some of the pics on here and you will see what I mean.
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Kevin Chapman
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If the USSR was being eliminated that quickly in Classic A&A, your friends either had a poor Soviet strategy or weren't playing the game right. If anything, the game is biased toward the Allies.
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Dr ?
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Krieg,

This is why I asked for clarification about which game was being played. We consistently won with the Allies. In fact, tournaments gave large bonuses to the Axis so that they would have close to an even chance....
 
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Griffin Johnson
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Warpiglet wrote:
Krieg,

This is why I asked for clarification about which game was being played. We consistently won with the Allies. In fact, tournaments gave large bonuses to the Axis so that they would have close to an even chance....


I know it may be a bit early to ask but do you feel like the game is again heavily stacked FOR the allies?

I am more interested in playing the AAP40 and AAE40 together vs. separately.

Thanks!

It can't be easy to balance this game given the historical realities of war

 
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Kevin Chapman
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So far, reports seem to indicate that the Europe and global games are pretty well balanced. Pacific has some issues, but we're working on it.
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Dr ?
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All I know is this:

Global is fun. We are far from knowing the best way to go. Looks like there are multiple ways to win which is a hallmark of a good game and a good AA game in particular.

And if the setup needs to be tweaked for balance in Pacific, lets get it tested and tweaked!

What is happening with Global is what happened with the original game. We are novices again. I have played for more than 20 years and the naval bases, new territories and setup has me off balance. It is really a great feeling. Thus, the first time we came up with infantry for a round or two followed by armor, to Karelia, we thought we had the original AA "broken" or licked. Then of course the allies flew planes into Russia and built a fleet with UK and US. Needless to say we changed our minds a few time

I don't think global is close to being solved.
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Erin OConnor
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So I will comment on this since I Am one of the people that he is refering to.

In the original axis and allies Moscow was only 2 spaces from the nearest german edge. Germany was able to blitzkrieg taking 1 space on teh first turn. and then taking moscow on the second turn.

We fiddled with the game pretty heavily just playing out the germany vs russia and working through all sorts of different scenarios. The best option for Russia was to build troops, LOTS of troops. They were the cheapest to produce, and they defended well. Even then Moscow would fall (maybe it would take 3 or 4 turns) but it was an inevitability.

Mind you I am working from memory thats 5 years old (maybe more).

but yes, the LAST time we played moscow fell in 2 turns. The game was packed up and never played since.
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Andrew Prizzi
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It's interesting that I'd agree the 1980's edition of A&A was "broken" using the rules as written, but in a totally different way. I think with inexperienced players Germany can often take Moscow early in the game, but once the Allies know what to do (build Soviet Infantry, reinforce Soviets with UK fighters as necessary, etc) then it becomes very difficult for it to happen. On the contrary, the problem with that edition of A&A is that the Axis can't win when faced by competent allied play. The dreaded "shuck shuck" as taught in Don's Axis and Allies essays.
 
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Kevin Chapman
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Erin, it sounds to me like your group played purely defensively with the USSR. This will indeed lead to a quick Axis victory. If the Soviets counter-attack fairly aggressively every turn (starting with their first), Germany will have a much harder time. It's critical to keep pushing the Germans back.

Dan, I wouldn't say that the Axis can't win - it's just difficult. Many people have been playing this game competetively for decades using a small bid in starting units (two or three) to the Axis as a balancing agent.


Warpiglet wrote:
And if the setup needs to be tweaked for balance in Pacific, lets get it tested and tweaked!

If you're interested in following or participating in this effort, check out this thread on Larry Harris's site.
 
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Andrew Prizzi
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Yes, I'm aware that the game can be balanced with bidding, and I have played that way. I will stand by the comment that with the rules as written (without bidding) the Axis can't win the 80's edition of the game unless:

A) The allied player isn't familiar with the Shuck.

or

B) The Axis player gets a nigh impossible string of good rolls.

A&A is/was one of my favorite games. The underlying engine of the game is pure genius. I've never gotten the chance to play one Revised or later editions, although I did try the original Europe and Pacific games.
 
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