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Subject: Man Discovers Fatherhood! Alert the Media! rss

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Moshe Callen
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ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
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μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
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What's the issue?
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Sam I am
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I was a stay at home dad for five years (unpaid). I went to a class reunion and another guy said "I bet your house is spotless and everything is done, since you don't sit around and watch soaps." (Implying his wife was a slacker.) Needless to say I jumped down his throat and let him know that "slacking" involves 4-5 hours of KP and laundry.
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Zé Mário
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I'm guessing you guys don't have paternity absences like these, is that it?
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Daniel Eig
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I spent 3 months on paternity leave here in good ol' USA. I liked it.

Most time off since summer vacations back in high school. Oh yeah, and I bonded with the kid. That was nice too.
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Ed Holzman
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Asur wrote:
I'm guessing you guys don't have paternity absences like these, is that it?

Nope. If you want to collect a paycheck here in the USA, you either go to work or use your allocated PTO (generally 10 personal days and around 10-12 holidays per year).
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Jasper
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bjlillo wrote:
Gut reaction? Why is Sweden being so environmentally irresponsible by incenting people to have so many kids? The new lineup of Discovery Channel will have to teach them. If you properly time your kids to once every 18 months, you'd never have to go to work.
hehe, In Poland, maternity leave is three years, and they cant fire you during that time. My wife's cousin has not been at work for almost 8 years now, but when the last one turns 4, they will have to free up a desk for her
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Jasper
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Bearcat89 wrote:
Asur wrote:
I'm guessing you guys don't have paternity absences like these, is that it?

Nope. If you want to collect a paycheck here in the USA, you either go to work or use your allocated PTO (generally 10 personal days and around 10-12 holidays per year).
Feeling superior much?
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Antigonus Monophthalmus
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Venga2 wrote:
Feeling superior much?


FTFY
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Kate Callen
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Drew1365 wrote:
Venga2 wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
Gut reaction? Why is Sweden being so environmentally irresponsible by incenting people to have so many kids? The new lineup of Discovery Channel will have to teach them. If you properly time your kids to once every 18 months, you'd never have to go to work.
hehe, In Poland, maternity leave is three years, and they cant fire you during that time. My wife's cousin has not been at work for almost 8 years now, but when the last one turns 4, they will have to free up a desk for her


How do you, personally, feel about this?

• Awesome for her! Take advantage of all the perks! Screw your employers! You go, girl!

or

• You know, there's something wrong with a system that requires an employer to pay a regular wage to someone who hasn't been to work in 8 years, while also forcing that employer to keep the position open in case she finally decides to show up.


That's not what struck me about this article, though. But the point is still there.





He didn't say she's being paid all that time (she may be, but he didn't say so) - just that they can't fire her during it. Plenty of countries allow mothers/parents to take more time off unpaid than they get paid for. They may also get partial pay (from the government instead of/shared with their employer).
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Mike Bourgeois
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I did I think 6 months of paternal semi paid (65% of wage) leave with Karolyn. I really kinda liked it. Hang out with the kid and learn how to look after a house with an infant in it. Gave me tons of respect for both my wife and mom who both worked and looked after us boos.

Now if they only had a handyman leave option so I could learn to fix all the things that go *BOOM* in the night and afternoon and morning.
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Ed Holzman
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Venga2 wrote:
Bearcat89 wrote:
Asur wrote:
I'm guessing you guys don't have paternity absences like these, is that it?

Nope. If you want to collect a paycheck here in the USA, you either go to work or use your allocated PTO (generally 10 personal days and around 10-12 holidays per year).
Feeling superior much?

Yep. I get paid for the work that I perform for my employer. My employer gains no benefit from my efforts at child raising and should not be expected to pay me to do it. This is why my wife quit her job and stays at home while I work. The children have full time care from a parent and a steady income is provided for work performed.
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Moshe Callen
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ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
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μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
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Bearcat89 wrote:
Venga2 wrote:
Bearcat89 wrote:
Asur wrote:
I'm guessing you guys don't have paternity absences like these, is that it?

Nope. If you want to collect a paycheck here in the USA, you either go to work or use your allocated PTO (generally 10 personal days and around 10-12 holidays per year).
Feeling superior much?

Yep. I get paid for the work that I perform for my employer. My employer gains no benefit from my efforts at child raising and should not be expected to pay me to do it. This is why my wife quit her job and stays at home while I work. The children have full time care from a parent and a steady income is provided for work performed.

So what?
Paternity leave means you get to take off time to bond with a newborn child. What has the rest to do with anything?
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David K
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Bearcat89 wrote:
My employer gains no benefit from my efforts at child raising...


He doesn't make any money as a result, but how is that the major consideration here? How did you arrive at the conclusion that the only thing about your life that your employer should care about or try to accomodate is what puts another nickel in his pocket?

Paternity leave is nice for the dads who can get it, and it's good for the kids, but I think it's important to realize that the right to maternity leave is an important way to safe-guard the rights of working women. One way women have been marginalized in the economy and relegated to low-wage, no-future jobs is the argument, "I don't want to train you do any skilled work because you'll probably just get pregnant, and then I'll have to train someone else all over again." Would you suppport the right of an employer to say to a woman, "I'll train you to do this work only if you sign a contract not to get pregnant. Then if you do get pregnant, you'll have to reimburse me the cost of the training"?
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Blorb Plorbst
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kade wrote:
Bearcat89 wrote:
My employer gains no benefit from my efforts at child raising...


He doesn't make any money as a result, but how is that the major consideration here? How did you arrive at the conclusion that the only thing about your life that your employer should care about or try to accomodate is what puts another nickel in his pocket?


I'll second that sentiment. Employers have a lot to gain by having a loyal satisfied workforce. The 2 weeks that I got were great but I would have loved 2 or 6 months!

I think it's largely not the government's role to require paternity leave but employers who grant it will find that their employees are more likely to remain loyal employees; they will value their place in the company because their company has shown that it values them as individuals.

I think we will see more of this in the US over the next 20 years. Even through this recession, many companies who can't afford to keep all of its employees have continued to pay reduced wages to those who are laid off and unable to find other work. This ensures that when the economy turns up, they'll have the same skilled workers back in their employment. It's progressive ideas like this that will make businesses successful. Not top down, oppressive tyranny.
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William Boykin
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Paternity Leave is like any other work benefit. Its a cost to the employer- like a salary- that they give out in order to get the best possible employees for the money.

I think company's offering paternity leave for men and women is wonderful. I would be more skeptical about a law that said that it was mandatory.

Darilian
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Would you support mandatory maternity leave? Just curious.
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It sounds like you're pissed off that some guy is a happy doting father. Let him have his fun, as long as he doesn't bring the kid on any long haul flights.
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Bearcat89 wrote:
Asur wrote:
I'm guessing you guys don't have paternity absences like these, is that it?

Nope. If you want to collect a paycheck here in the USA, you either go to work or use your allocated PTO (generally 10 personal days and around 10-12 holidays per year).


Here in Europe everybody lives off welfare. This is possible only because the USA pays for our defense. God bless the Socialist European Union!
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Drew1365 wrote:
How do you, personally, feel about this?

• Awesome for her! Take advantage of all the perks! Screw your employers! You go, girl!

or

• You know, there's something wrong with a system that requires an employer to pay a regular wage to someone who hasn't been to work in 8 years, while also forcing that employer to keep the position open in case she finally decides to show up.


It is possible to have a third way, you know. As in,

"I'm glad the system allows for mothers to take care of their children during one of the most important portion of their lives. It contributes to stronger relationships between parents and children and generally a happier population. I'm also glad that there is a system of subsidies and incentives that makes the situation perfectly bearable for employers."

You guys seem to imply that people support the welfare state out of personal benefit, "free checks" for doing nothing. It is anything but that.
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Jasper
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Drew1365 wrote:
Venga2 wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
Gut reaction? Why is Sweden being so environmentally irresponsible by incenting people to have so many kids? The new lineup of Discovery Channel will have to teach them. If you properly time your kids to once every 18 months, you'd never have to go to work.
hehe, In Poland, maternity leave is three years, and they cant fire you during that time. My wife's cousin has not been at work for almost 8 years now, but when the last one turns 4, they will have to free up a desk for her


How do you, personally, feel about this?

• Awesome for her! Take advantage of all the perks! Screw your employers! You go, girl!

or

• You know, there's something wrong with a system that requires an employer to pay a regular wage to someone who hasn't been to work in 8 years, while also forcing that employer to keep the position open in case she finally decides to show up.


That's not what struck me about this article, though. But the point is still there.



for the sakebof clarity, they do npt pay her a wage during that time, but i think they dp have to pay for pension and inaurance and such. and yes, it is a rather ridiculous state of affairs.
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Harald Korneliussen
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Venga2 wrote:


for the sakebof clarity, they do npt pay her a wage during that time, but i think they dp have to pay for pension and inaurance and such. and yes, it is a rather ridiculous state of affairs.


Ah, it's not that ridiculous. Even if you hate kids and Discovery Channel, all that gold you've personally earned (with hard, honest work) for your retirement will be worthless unless there are young, working people around to trade goods and services with at the time.

It's simply in everyone's best interest to avoid a child-hostile community, and anyone who denies it is just trying to dodge his fair share of the bill.
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vintermann wrote:
Venga2 wrote:


for the sakebof clarity, they do npt pay her a wage during that time, but i think they dp have to pay for pension and inaurance and such. and yes, it is a rather ridiculous state of affairs.


Ah, it's not that ridiculous. Even if you hate kids and Discovery Channel, all that gold you've personally earned (with hard, honest work) for your retirement will be worthless unless there are young, working people around to trade goods and services with at the time.

It's simply in everyone's best interest to avoid a child-hostile community, and anyone who denies it is just trying to dodge his fair share of the bill.

Indeed. Sorry for the brief message earlier but I had to use my phone. What I regard as silly is the extreme lenght of maternity leave in Poland. It has the significant downside of making it much harder foor young women to find a job in the first place, as employers do not like to lose them for 3 years. However some kind of mternity leave is essential, I think we can all agree on that (for my feeling 6 months is nice). And I really do think a minimum should be mandated by the state to level the playing field.

Paternity leave would be nice as well. I got a mere 2 days, and that was not even enough to recover from the shock
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Ed Holzman
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You don't have to work at home to dote upon your children. Setting aside at least 30-45 minutes per child each evening for interactive play and talk is a great way to wind down from your work day. And weekends are free to spend even more time with your children. Plenty of bonding going on.
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Bearcat89 wrote:
Setting aside at least 30-45 minutes per child each evening for interactive play and talk is a great way to wind down from your work day. .


Sounds like the "how to" manual of being Ward Cleaver.
 
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I don't disagree....just the wording made me chuckle.
 
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