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Dominion» Forums » Rules

Subject: Are copper, silver, and gold considered supply cards... rss

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Larry Tuxbury
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...when considering the game-ending criteria?
 
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Richard Morris
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ltux wrote:
...when considering the game-ending criteria?


yes
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1603-1714
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Yes they are.
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Patrick G.
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ltux wrote:
...when considering the game-ending criteria?

But if you have Intrigue and Dominion the rules say you are supposed to play with all of the treasure because they represent an almost limitless supply.


In my gaming group when a treasure is trashed we just throw it back on the supply because I only sleeved about half of the treasures to save space and sleeves. :-D
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Patrick G.
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gf1024 wrote:
AnnuverScotinExile wrote:
ltux wrote:
...when considering the game-ending criteria?


yes


cagriggs wrote:
Yes they are.

Listen to these guys, they tell the truth.

Are you implying I don't?

'Intrigue Rules' wrote:

The Treasure cards
from Dominion and Dominion: Intrigue can be combined, since these cards are
intended to be in abundant enough supply to not run out.
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Matt E
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It's true that you can combine the Treasure cards from Dominion and Intrigue, but the rules state that if a basic Treasure stack runs down, it counts as a depleted pile for the purposes of the game-end conditions.

Also, it's technically against the rules to put trashed cards back into the supply, although for basic Treasures it's not likely to matter.
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Patrick G.
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LastFootnote wrote:
It's true that you can combine the Treasure cards from Dominion and Intrigue, but the rules state that if a basic Treasure stack runs down, it counts as a depleted pile for the purposes of the game-end conditions.

Also, it's technically against the rules to put trashed cards back into the supply, although for basic Treasures it's not likely to matter.


Does no one bother to read entire posts? I said we did that because I only sleeved about half of the treasures.

Did you not see the quote from the rules I posted as well?
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Matt E
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corkysru wrote:
Does no one bother to read entire posts? I said we did that because I only sleeved about half of the treasures.

Did you not see the quote from the rules I posted as well?

Yeah, I saw all of that. It's cool and you can play how you like. It's just not technically what the rules stipulate.

If you'd said that when you trashed Treasures, you put them back in the supply and put an unsleeved copy in the trash, that would be different.
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Whitney Barnes

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'Intrigue Rules' wrote:

The Treasure cards
from Dominion and Dominion: Intrigue can be combined, since these cards are
intended to be in abundant enough supply to not run out.


I took this to mean that if the piles of treasure run out, it's just because of the economics of printing and packaging make it impossible to have more physical cards without jacking up the price of the box a lot. Basically, that it's a bug, not a feature. Coins have rarely run out in my games, but I personally think the right thing to do is to put in more, if you have them.

I also only sleeved enough coins for a 4-player game, and not quite that, because I wanted them to fit in the slots. But I saved the rest, and always have sleeves on hand, so on the occasions when coins have run out, I've been able to sleeve a few more.
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Jeff Wolfe
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corkysru wrote:
But if you have Intrigue and Dominion the rules say you are supposed to play with all of the treasure because they represent an almost limitless supply.


corkysru wrote:

gf1024 wrote:
Listen to these guys, they tell the truth.

Are you implying I don't?

Intrigue Rules wrote:

The Treasure cards
from Dominion and Dominion: Intrigue can be combined, since these cards are
intended to be in abundant enough supply to not run out.


The rules say the Treasure "can be" combined, it doesn't say that you're "supposed to" combine Treasure. And the sentence after the one you quoted clarifies:

Intrigue Rules wrote:

(If a type of Treasure card does run out, that becomes an empty pile in the Supply, which can be important for game ending conditions.)


So, you can play with one set of basic Treasure or two, but when the Treasure in play runs out, it counts as an empty pile. Note that when you play with 5-6 players, it's no longer optional: in that case you play with two sets of Treasure.

How you play in your home game is entirely up to you, but it's not supported by the rules as published.

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Edward Montgomery
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jeffwolfe wrote:

So, you can play with one set of basic Treasure or two, but when the Treasure in play runs out, it counts as an empty pile. Note that when you play with 5-6 players, it's no longer optional: in that case you play with two sets of Treasure.

How you play in your home game is entirely up to you, but it's not supported by the rules as published.



Huh.

Dominion uses table stakes? I had no idea.

By that I mean that there are two different possible amounts of treasure in play, but regardless of which total it is, that's all there is once the game starts. An interesting quirk.

I have seen Copper run out once, I think. No, not using double size piles! And not for a while. Maybe our play has changed to the point that games end quicker than that now.


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Larry Tuxbury
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Ah, after doing a search of the designer's replies to other posts, I found this response from November 23, 2008. It pretty well answers my question:

donaldx wrote:
It's the Provinces, or any three stacks. So for example if the Silver, Curses and Villages run out, that will end the game.


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Ido Abelman
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Donald once said (I'm not sure where) that copper, silver and gold were originally meant to be infinite. Since this is practically impossible, he decided that they will count as empty piles, just to simplify things.
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Larry Tuxbury
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And he just verified it for me through Geek Mail.
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Rick Teverbaugh
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corkysru wrote:
LastFootnote wrote:
It's true that you can combine the Treasure cards from Dominion and Intrigue, but the rules state that if a basic Treasure stack runs down, it counts as a depleted pile for the purposes of the game-end conditions.

Also, it's technically against the rules to put trashed cards back into the supply, although for basic Treasures it's not likely to matter.


Does no one bother to read entire posts? I said we did that because I only sleeved about half of the treasures.

Did you not see the quote from the rules I posted as well?


Can you tell that most of us would rather follow the rules than your attempt to save 50-75 cents?
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Valerie Putman
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Yes it is true that you could play with two sets of treasure cards...or not. Or perhaps your dog chewed up one of your coppers and you are playing one short. The key is, at the start of the game, the supply is determined. If I want to play a game that purposefully tries to run out the copper pile to end the game, I should know at the start of the game how big that pile is (which might then deter me from that strategy). It shouldn't be the case that I'm working towards that goal and then halfway through the game you try to undo my efforts by trashing coppers and putting them back.

So... Yes we would have liked unlimited treasures (especially coppers) so that you couldn't be stuck in the very unlikely situation that all of your Treasures have been thieved and you can't even pretend to try to get back into the game. That said, we want the game to have a known amount of cards in the supply so that you can count them and plan for the game ending conditions accordingly. Wouldn't it suck if you bought an Estate thinking the game was nearly over and someone said--no, wait, I only put out half the cards--here are the other half.

So the final decision was to put in what we felt was enough treasure cards to very rarely run out, but not so many that you felt like you were buying a game with a million cards you never used, while still making it a supply pile that could end the game (rule consistency = more elegant game design).

Hope this was useful!
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