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Subject: Poland rss

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Justin Royek
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This is a message about Axis & Allies and the territory called Poland.

In 1939, in the area called "East Poland" in Axis & Allies:Europe 1940 there were several territories called Voivodeships in Poland. The provinces of Poland are composed of Voivodeships like Lwów Voivodeship or Warszawa Voivodeship in East Poland. These voivodeships were designed to govern Poland more effectively.
http://cichecki.net/bebelno/grafika/bebelno_mapa_polski_1921...

To make the game more historically accurate, the Axis & Allies designers should put in these Voivodeships like the states of the United States for example.
Poland was composed of 14 voivodeships in 1939. The Soviet Union took the territories the Eastern Voivodeships and incorporated them as part of the Molotov Von Ribbentrop pact of 1939. Having it just called East Poland is inaccurate, but there has to be a way to represent the Polish nation, if we were to represent Poland in A&A.

I want to represent Poland in Axis & Allies because Poland fought hard against the Germans. The Germans lost 250 aircraft in operations against Poland. The Poles used the PZL p.11 C fighter airplane.



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Bill Eldard
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How about Holland and Belgium appearing as a single territory?

You're worried about historical accuracy in Axis & Allies?

That said, I think Poland - represented as two occupied territories -- is quite accurate for the 1940 game start and the scale of the game. Whatever conventional fighting Poland did against the invaders was all over by 1940.

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Justin Royek
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I don't know,
That works, too. Thanks. You guys are friendlier than the folks on Harris Game Design.
I'd like to see Poland more represented in the game because the Poles fought valiantly in the Battle of Britain in 1940 with their Polish squadrons in the RAF. According to Andrew Mollo, in the book Uniforms of World War II, the Polish squadrons under the Polish Air Force in Exile in Great Britain shot down 7% of all airplanes in the battle.


How come Poland is already represented as 2 territories, East Poland and Poland itself?
We'
I don't want every territory represented, but just compressed down to fit Axis & Allies game series.
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Justin Royek
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Eldard wrote:
How about Holland and Belgium appearing as a single territory?

You're worried about historical accuracy in Axis & Allies?

Yes I am. I

That said, I think Poland - represented as two occupied territories -- is quite accurate for the 1940 game start and the scale of the game. Whatever conventional fighting Poland did against the invaders was all over by 1940.



Actually,
the Poles fought on after 1940. Just look at this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._303_Polish_Fighter_Squadron
The Poles fought significantly in 1940 after being defeated by the Germans in Poland. The Poles contributed several fighter squadrons to the RAF and the father of my dad's friend fought in the Free Polish Army Tank Corps in World War II.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Air_Forces_in_France_and...


The first squadrons were 300 and 301 bomber squadrons and 302 and 303 fighter squadrons. The fighter squadrons, flying the Hawker Hurricane, first saw action in the third phase of the Battle of Britain in late August 1940, quickly becoming highly effective. Polish flying skills were well-developed from the Invasion of Poland and the pilots were regarded as fearless and sometimes bordered on reckless. Their success rates were very high in comparison to the less-experienced British Commonwealth pilots.[5] 303 squadron became the most efficient RAF fighter unit at that time[6]. Many Polish pilots also flew in other RAF squadrons. In the following years, further Polish squadrons were created: 304 (bomber, then Coastal Command), 305 (bomber), 306 (fighter), 307 (night fighter), 308 (fighter), 309 (reconnaissance, then fighter), 315 (fighter), 316 (fighter), 317 (fighter), 318 (fighter-reconnaissance) and 663 (air observation/artillery spotting).


I just wanted to see 3 more territories, like Lwów and Wiłno for Poland much like this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_government-in-exile

he Polish government-in-exile, formally known as the Government of the Republic of Poland in Exile (Polish: Rząd Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej na uchodźstwie), was the government in exile of Poland formed in the aftermath of the Invasion of Poland of September 1939, and the subsequent occupation of Poland by Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union, which brought to an end the Second Polish Republic founded in 1918.

Though largely unrecognized and without effective power after the end of World War II, it remained in existence until the end of Communist rule in Poland in 1990, in opposition to the People's Republic of Poland, a Soviet satellite state, when it formally passed on its responsibilities to the new government.

The government-in-exile was based in France during 1939 and 1940, first in Paris and then in Angers. From 1940, following the Fall of France, the government moved to London, and remained in the United Kingdom until its dissolution in 1990.
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Bill Eldard
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There were certainly Polish units fighting after 1939. The German invasion of the Soviet Union in June 1941 saw tens of thousands of Polish POWs 'freed' from the Soviet camps to fight the Nazis.

The Red Army had the 1st and 2nd Polish Armies led by reliable Communist commissars and cadres. Stalin had decimated the Polish officer corps in the Katyn Massacre.

Other Polish former-POWs found their way to British control, where they joined Polish exiles to be organized and equipped along the British Commonwealth model, and nominally under the political control of the Polish government in exile. Included in that mix was the Polish Corps that fought in Italy, the Polish 1st Armored Division that landed in Normandy in '44, and the Polish Parachute Brigade that dropped in Operation Market-Garden.

But these forces are represented by Russian and British miniatures, respectively. The same is true for the Canadians, who fielded a larger army in France 1944.

If you want to designate particular units as Polish, you can always paint them, or substitute minis from earlier A&A products. I would think that two Russian infantry would suffice for the 1st and 2nd Polish Armies, and that 1 mechanized infantry would cover the Polish units in the West. Other Polsih units are too small to be represented at this scale.
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Hunga Dunga
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If you're really interested in Poland, foregt A&A and play Case White. It's not that difficult to find a copy.

After the invasion, there should be a few D-Day games that include Polish regiments.

Years ago, I was at a party where I met the dad of a school chum of mine. This old guy was a Pole and fought against the Russians in 1939. He was imprisoned in Russia. He managed to escape, and ended up in England by way of North Africa. In England, he suited up again (a tank commander) and participated in the Normandy invasion.
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Bill Eldard
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Patchman123 wrote:
Eldard wrote:
How about Holland and Belgium appearing as a single territory?

You're worried about historical accuracy in Axis & Allies?

Yes I am. I

That said, I think Poland - represented as two occupied territories -- is quite accurate for the 1940 game start and the scale of the game. Whatever conventional fighting Poland did against the invaders was all over by 1940.



Actually,
the Poles fought on after 1940. . . .


They certainly did. If you re-read my post, I said that conventional fighting against the invaders ended in '39.

The conventional Polish forces that fought after the fall of Poland were equippeed and subordinated to Soviet or British organizations.
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Bill Eldard
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Hungadunga wrote:
If you're really interested in Poland, foregt A&A and play Case White. It's not that difficult to find a copy.

After the invasion, there should be a few D-Day games that include Polish regiments.

Years ago, I was at a party where I met the dad of a school chum of mine. This old guy was a Pole and fought against the Russians in 1939. He was imprisoned in Russia. He managed to escape, and ended up in England by way of North Africa. In England, he suited up again (a tank commander) and participated in the Normandy invasion.


The Polish 1st Armored Division fought a rather ferocious battle in an attempt to close the Falaise Pocket. According to historian John Keegan, the Germans feared capture at the hands of the vengeful Poles.

I'm sure that Polish vet had no love for the Russians.
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Russ Williams
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Patchman123 wrote:
This is a message about Axis & Allies and the territory called Poland.

Hi, welcome to BGG. For future reference, this is the sort of post that is perfectly suited for the Variants forum of the specific game (Axis & Allies in this case).
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Matthew M
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Moved from Board Game Design to A&A Variants
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David Nichols
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That Poland maintained a non-communist government-in-exile was news to me. That the cabinet was still meeting biweekly in London as late as 1989 was startling news. Pretty neat story.
 
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Justin Royek
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Okay. I painted a seperate Polish Army for Axis & Allies to make it less complicated so that they'd stand out. I painted a Polish Army out of British pieces all by myself.
 
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Justin Royek
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Eldard wrote:
There were certainly Polish units fighting after 1939. The German invasion of the Soviet Union in June 1941 saw tens of thousands of Polish POWs 'freed' from the Soviet camps to fight the Nazis.

The Red Army had the 1st and 2nd Polish Armies led by reliable Communist commissars and cadres. Stalin had decimated the Polish officer corps in the Katyn Massacre.

Other Polish former-POWs found their way to British control, where they joined Polish exiles to be organized and equipped along the British Commonwealth model, and nominally under the political control of the Polish government in exile. Included in that mix was the Polish Corps that fought in Italy, the Polish 1st Armored Division that landed in Normandy in '44, and the Polish Parachute Brigade that dropped in Operation Market-Garden.

But these forces are represented by Russian and British miniatures, respectively. The same is true for the Canadians, who fielded a larger army in France 1944.

If you want to designate particular units as Polish, you can always paint them, or substitute minis from earlier A&A products. I would think that two Russian infantry would suffice for the 1st and 2nd Polish Armies, and that 1 mechanized infantry would cover the Polish units in the West. Other Polish units are too small to be represented at this scale.


I have pained a new board representing the Polish forces units that fought on past 1939.
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/c9389a26449a702c503db399...
I have also painted Polish units, but using Russian infantry pieces, is too confusing. It's better to tell them apart.
My new setup for this game is. Danzig, Malopolskie, Lwow, Wolyn, and Wilno are the Polish territories seized by Germany and Soviet Union during the 1949 campaign. These territories of Danzig and Malopolskie are held by Germany. Lwow, Wolyn, and Wilno are held by Soviet Union.
Germany Setup
Danzig, 1 Naval base, 1 Infantry, 1 Mechanized Infantry, 1 Fighter.
Malopolskie, 2 Infantry, 1 Armor

Soviet Union
Lwow, 2 Inf. 1 Artillery,
Wilno, 2 Inf.
Wolyn, 1 Infantry
 
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Los 28
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Patchman123 wrote:
Okay. I painted a seperate Polish Army for Axis & Allies to make it less complicated so that they'd stand out. I painted a Polish Army out of British pieces all by myself.


Justin,
Just an FYI. There is a small company that I was introduced to a couple of weeks ago, that already has various painted Axis & Allies pieces for sale. They have pieces for Poland, as well as other countries like Bulgaria, Finland, Hungary, South Africa, Netherlands, Canada, India, France and others.

Check them out at their website:
http://www.historicalboardgaming.com/category/paintedarmies
whistle
 
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Justin Royek
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Los28 wrote:
Patchman123 wrote:
Okay. I painted a seperate Polish Army for Axis & Allies to make it less complicated so that they'd stand out. I painted a Polish Army out of British pieces all by myself.


Justin,
Just an FYI. There is a small company that I was introduced to a couple of weeks ago, that already has various painted Axis & Allies pieces for sale. They have pieces for Poland, as well as other countries like Bulgaria, Finland, Hungary, South Africa, Netherlands, Canada, India, France and others.

Check them out at their website:
http://www.historicalboardgaming.com/category/paintedarmies
whistle


Yes, I know. That's why I encourage people to buy pieces from them to represent the Polish forces on this map.
 
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