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De Vulgari Eloquentia» Forums » General

Subject: English rules up on Z-Man site.. rss

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Daniel Rocchi
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As per the subject line, English rules up on Z-Man site..

http://www.zmangames.com/


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Nuno Bizarro Sentieiro
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http://www.zmangames.com/boardgames/devulgari.htm
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Jim Cote
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Is it too late to submit errors?
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Michele Quondam
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No, isn't late, still a couple of days available, write me a msg and I will correct them

Ciao
Michele
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Russ Williams
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I am interested in this game - very unusual theme! thumbsup

Some language issues I noticed skimming through the rules:

page 1:
"turnchart" seems to appear as one word throughout the text; "turn chart" seems more correct and commonly used.

"the support of Politicians, Noblemen, Abbesses, and of the Amanuensis." -> Amanuenses (throughout the word "Amanuensis" seems used always, even in plural contexts, but the plural is "Amanuenses" - there are many places to correct that in the rules, and I don't mention all the following ones; the vast majority of "Amanuensis" should be plural "Amanuenses", as far as I noticed..)


page 2:
"randmomly" -> randomly

"they will determinate the end of the game" -> determine

"according to the number on them" -> numbers

page 3:
"On the side of the board the following has to be placed:" -> have to (or simply "should")

"IIth turn)" -> 11th

page 4:
"Take the Politicians, Noblemen, Abbesses and Amanuensis cubes" ->
Take the Politician, Nobleman, Abbess and Amanuensis cubes (nouns used like adjectives are normally singular)

page 11:
"content of the box" -> contents of the box (or simply "box contents")
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Michele Quondam
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Done

thank you Russ.
 
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Jim Cote
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I'm half way through. I have too many changes to post here (or anywhere). The English is just a little off everywhere. I would change more than 50% of them. Also the application that renders the document is doing a really poor job of inserting whitespace to make the text flush.

One thing I will point out: Almost every use of "can" should be "may". One exception would be that "A game of De Vulgari Eloquentia can last from 13 to 16 turns" should be "A game of De Vulgari Eloquentia takes from 13 to 16 turns".

Also, all cases where the phrase "amount of [something countable]" sould be "number of...". It's "amount of money" but "number of Ducati".
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Russ Williams
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ekted wrote:
I have too many changes to post here (or anywhere). The English is just a little off everywhere.

I agree that much of it sounds stylistically unnatural and non-native, but decided it wasn't worth worrying about that. Actual misspellings and grammatical errors are the easy-to-fix low-hanging fruit.
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Jim Cote
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The description of the "Moving" action is very confusing. One sentence says that you have to stop if you move to sea, and another says you can combine land and sea movement. The rules also say you can use the action before or after movement, but don't say if this "or" is inclusive or exclusive.

russ wrote:
...but decided it wasn't worth worrying about...

I would urge you (if you are involved) to consider a complete overhaul if you are not rushed for Essen. I'm really surprised that Zev is happy with these rules. If this game is well-received, there WILL be complete rewrite by fans. I know if that happened for rules that I had written, I would be pretty embarrassed.
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Russ Williams
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ekted wrote:
I would urge you (if you are involved) to consider a complete overhaul if you are not rushed for Essen.

Oh, I am just an interested potential player and/or buyer of the game who took a quick pass through the rules just now. (The same as you, I assume - right?) If it was a project I was professionally involved with, I would indeed do a major revision on the English translation since so many sentences have odd/unnatural grammar.

(I have gotten used to automatically not worrying about non-native word order etc., since most of the English I hear and read in "real life" these days is non-native English... but certainly I agree it would be better to have good natural English in the published rules.)
 
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Marcus E.-L.
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ekted wrote:

The description of the "Moving" action is very confusing. One sentence says that you have to stop if you move to sea, and another says you can combine land and sea movement.


I asked a similar question and got this answer from the author (via gnocarello):

gnocarello wrote:

The trip from Palermo to Cagliari costs 10 Ducati and 3 actions. It takes a turn.
If you want to spend no Ducati, you have to travel first from Palermo into the open sea and than from the open sea to Cagliari. It takes two turns.



ekted wrote:

The rules also say you can use the action before or after movement, but don't say if this "or" is inclusive or exclusive.


What do you mean with "the action"? Interacting with the zones on the map?
 
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Jim Cote
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luniki wrote:
What do you mean with "the action"? Interacting with the zones on the map?

Yes.
 
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Gavin Wynford-Jones
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ekted wrote:
I'm half way through. I have too many changes to post here (or anywhere). The English is just a little off everywhere. I would change more than 50% of them. Also the application that renders the document is doing a really poor job of inserting whitespace to make the text flush.

One thing I will point out: Almost every use of "can" should be "may". One exception would be that "A game of De Vulgari Eloquentia can last from 13 to 16 turns" should be "A game of De Vulgari Eloquentia takes from 13 to 16 turns".

Also, all cases where the phrase "amount of [something countable]" sould be "number of...". It's "amount of money" but "number of Ducati".


Michele has asked me to give the English rules a thorough going-over. If anyone wishes to send me their comments about unclear areas, please do so. There is no need to send editorial corrections, though.

It's best to send me email: gavinwj at wanadoo dot fr
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Jim Cote
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I started marking up the rules, but I have questions about almost every paragraph. I'll wait until you have a real English version to read them again.
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Gavin Wynford-Jones
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The update is now in Michele's hands. We can but wait...
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Michele Quondam
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It's online on Giochix web site:
www.giochix.it

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Gavin Wynford-Jones
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micheleq wrote:
It's online on Giochix web site:
www.giochix.it



And I've just spotted a flippin' typo!! Aaaargh!

But it's very easily fixed in the PDF before it goes to print.
 
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Jim Cote
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"Movement ans Small Business"
"Thie manuscript"
"player's screen screen"
"further Ducato from Milano"

I have not read the update for grammar.
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Michele Quondam
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eheheheh, next year we will made a game so: find the typo!
anyway, we will correct any segnalation

ciao
michele
 
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Gavin Wynford-Jones
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micheleq wrote:
eheheheh, next year we will made a game so: find the typo!
anyway, we will correct any segnalation

ciao
michele


Half the books I own have at least one typo in them. It's a truism of the publishing world that it's easier to find typos in other people's work than in your own. (Not an excuse, just an observation.)

Jim: thanks for finding those. Hopefully, that's the lot.
 
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Marcus E.-L.
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ekted wrote:
luniki wrote:
What do you mean with "the action"? Interacting with the zones on the map?

Yes.


So according to the new rules you may interact with the zones before and/or after your movement. The "or" is not exclusive.
 
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Gavin Wynford-Jones
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luniki wrote:
ekted wrote:
luniki wrote:
What do you mean with "the action"? Interacting with the zones on the map?

Yes.


So according to the new rules you may interact with the zones before and/or after your movement. The "or" is not exclusive.


The update doesn't even mention interacting with zones.

You can perform five actions from the list, in any order. Movement is one of the actions.
 
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Ziegreich
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It's clear you cannot move somewhere, use the ability of that space and then move further. That leaves two questions:

1. Can you use the ability of a space where you start the turn, then move, then use the ability of the space where you end up? (I would think the answer is yes.)

2. What if you move somewhere and then back to where you started... can you gain knowledge points from that same space again?


 
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Hanno Girke
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ZirkvandenBerg wrote:

2. What if you move somewhere and then back to where you started... can you gain knowledge points from that same space again?


No. THat's why you place one of your markers afte visiting a space.
 
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Jim Cote
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Hanno wrote:
ZirkvandenBerg wrote:

2. What if you move somewhere and then back to where you started... can you gain knowledge points from that same space again?

No. THat's why you place one of your markers afte visiting a space.

Visiting a space, or using a space?
 
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