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Subject: Burn a Quran Day: First Amendment:1, Common Sense:0 rss

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GAINESVILLE, Fla. (AP) - A Christian minister said Tuesday that he will go ahead with plans to burn copies of the Quran this weekend to protest the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks despite a warning from the top U.S. general in Afghanistan that doing so would endanger American troops.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100907/D9I37GA01.html


I really gotta stop reading the news. It is bad for my heart....
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Alan Gaskell
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Don't you just love religion?
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Ken
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He was on Hardball a while ago and his description of why his church was doing this was...interesting.

Throw that in, and it's 1st Amendment: 2, Common Sense: 0.
 
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The man is an idiot, and not fit to run a church.
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Yes, we'll show those terrorists what for! By burning "their books" and showing them just what jackasses we really are! And if this can only empower those terrorists and not actually do anything deterimental to them at all, then alls the better!
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Seriously, will burning these books actually make anyone feel better about what happened nine years ago?
 
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serdudds wrote:
Seriously, will burning these books actually make anyone feel better about what happened nine years ago?


A whole bunch of people who we'd probably prefer didn't feel better in the first place.

Couple this with the furor over mosques just about everywhere in the country and we look a right bunch of asses.
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Les Marshall
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I'm sorry. Is this guy running a church or a political group intent on shaping foreign policy? Has anyone checked his IRS status?
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Let's get together and burn his favorite board game to protest his burning the Quran. That'll teach him!
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Well, nice to see that that the US really is as intolerant of other religions as other nations- like France and Belgium. So we're just as hypocritical as Sarkozy and the other politicians in Europe who proclaim that they are the lands of true 'civilization', but not for immigrants who aren't Christian or speak a different language.

*le sigh* cry

So much for the concept of the United States being a beacon of liberty-for all who want to come and live a better life.

Pardon me while I go throw up now.

gulp

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Quote:
Sunday, December 10, 2006

Australia : Muslim Students Urinate, Spit On Then Burn Bible



Quote:
Christians in Gaza Fear for Their Lives as Muslims Burn Bibles and Destroy Crosses

Kimberly West
Published June 18, 2007 by:


Just the two I found on page one of a Google search. Seeing as how Google shows items in relationship to searches I can imagine a thourough search would bring up many more instances of Muslims burning bibles, churches, crosses and actual Christians.

This is 'faux outrage'... especially given that the people here who are most outraged are atheists. You all should relax and just understand that this is normal human behavior.

Now, for those actually interested in some context, how about this:

It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every muslim who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise. He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemy's ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once.

These are the words of Tripoli's ambassador to London in 1785 when he responded to Thomas Jefferson's query about why the Muslim nations bore ill will towards America... who had never been aggressive towards them.

Nothing has changed. And if you think it has you're guilty of ignoring threats to your freedoms by omission.
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I am not usually accused of being an optimist, but I think it's kind of nice that this still makes the news and only one "church" is doing it.

Literal Muslims can't tolerate Christianity and literal Christians can't tolerate Islam. The overwhelming majority have no ill will towards followers of other religions. Nothing new here.

I heard that the church had been denied a burn permit and the fire department will be standing by. Could be interesting....
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Drew1365 wrote:
Darilian wrote:
Well, nice to see that that the US really is as intolerant of other religions as other nations . . .


You are equating the behavior of one church with the position of the entire United States.

Where is the Darillan who used to be wiser than this?


Darilian, do you equate Fred Phelps and his churches action with the entirity of the United States? If not, then how is this different?
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He's been rewarded for his behavior with all of the attention. I wish we'd just leave jackasses like this alone.
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Dispaminite wrote:
Darilian, do you equate Fred Phelps and his churches action with the entirity of the United States? If not, then how is this different?


I'm sure he doesn't, but with protests over just about every mosque being built, arson at the construction site of one, the "Ground Zero mosque" flap, and some really questionable statements about Islam in the political arena + this particular event, do you think we're showing tolerance?
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Darilian wrote:
Well, nice to see that that the US really is as intolerant of other religions as other nations- like France and Belgium. So we're just as hypocritical as Sarkozy and the other politicians in Europe who proclaim that they are the lands of true 'civilization', but not for immigrants who aren't Christian or speak a different language.

*le sigh* cry

So much for the concept of the United States being a beacon of liberty-for all who want to come and live a better life.

Pardon me while I go throw up now.

gulp

Elect that Quran burner president before comparing yourself to France like this.
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perfalbion wrote:
Dispaminite wrote:
Darilian, do you equate Fred Phelps and his churches action with the entirity of the United States? If not, then how is this different?


I'm sure he doesn't, but with protests over just about every mosque being built, arson at the construction site of one, the "Ground Zero mosque" flap, and some really questionable statements about Islam in the political arena + this particular event, do you think we're showing tolerance?


We who? Do you have a talking oyster in your pocket? I show very little tolerance for most people. But most people annoy me.
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DWTripp wrote:
Just the two I found on page one of a Google search. Seeing as how Google shows items in relationship to searches I can imagine a thourough search would bring up many more instances of Muslims burning bibles, churches, crosses and actual Christians.

Well spotted. Now, why should US christians emulate that behaviour?
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Conservatives, and those who wish to defend freedom to worship in this country more generally, should be outraged about how this flap over the mosque has been allowed to fester and grow into more general denunciations over Islam in general.

To me, there is no difference right now between Le Pen's bigotry against Muslims or the Swiss government's ban on the building of new mosques and what I'm hearing from politicians and pundits from Tom Tancredo to Howard Dean who feel that somehow something is 'threatened' because someone wants to build a community center centered around their particular faith 'near' the ruins of the World Trade Center.

Both of these are political positionings- of rank hypocrisy- that undermine and subvert the very essence of what makes both France and the United State's exceptional nations- the idea that ALL Humans are created equal, and are blessed with the RIGHT to Equality, Brotherhood and Liberty.

I am oppossed to tyranny- of ANY kind. ESPECIALLY when its the tyranny of the majority, telling us that some restrictions against the alien amongst is somehow 'necessary' in order to protect us. Never, ever, EVER will I sanction or give my support to such rhetoric or politics.

Freedom means that even people you don't like are still allowed to live their lives the way they want to- so long as they do no harm. I'm not convinced that building a religious center near Ground Zero is a harm.

Darilian

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We will defeat the terrorists only by winning the hearts and minds of Islamic societies. Quran burning, mosque-hate, invading Islamic countries for no good reason - these things are throwing gasoline on the fire, and are weakening the peace-loving moderates that must prevail if we want terrorism against the US to end.

As Darilian touched on, we should be showing an example of the best that a democratic society can be - free, tolerant, peace-loving, prosperous, etc. We could be very persuasive to Muslims if we could stop our self-defeating behaviors.
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Drew1365 wrote:
Darilian wrote:
Well, nice to see that that the US really is as intolerant of other religions as other nations . . .


You are equating the behavior of one church with the position of the entire United States.

Where is the Darillan who used to be wiser than this?


I never claimed to be wise.

Darilian
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DWTripp wrote:


This is 'faux outrage'... especially given that the people here who are most outraged are atheists.


Are Democrats the only ones who can legitimately be outraged over hypocrisy from other Democrats?

Are scientists the only ones who should be allowed to criticize other scientists? (actually, that's not a bad idea).

Quote:
You all should relax and just understand that this is normal human behavior.


So much for American Exceptionalism.

Being normal human behavior is a reason. It's no excuse. We are supposed to be Better Than This.

-MMM
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Octavian wrote:
DWTripp wrote:


This is 'faux outrage'... especially given that the people here who are most outraged are atheists.


Are Democrats the only ones who can legitimately be outraged over hypocrisy from other Democrats?

Are scientists the only ones who should be allowed to criticize other scientists? (actually, that's not a bad idea).

Quote:
You all should relax and just understand that this is normal human behavior.


So much for American Exceptionalism.

Being normal human behavior is a reason. It's no excuse. We are supposed to be Better Than This.

-MMM


Then be better, however you define it. You're missing the point. A large portion of the Muslim world actually believes that if you don't convert you should either die or be enslaved. Chiddler points out intolerance of "some" Christian sects, which is true. But I'm not aware of any that honestly believe that unless Chiddler becomes Christian he should die or be enslaved.

You ignore this at your own risk, no matter how tolerant you tell yourself you are. Right now the majority of Mosques in the UK are of the more radical muslim elements and they are demanding (and will eventually get) a totally separate set of laws for themselves. Is that what you want? Is that tolerance? As we speak, right here in America, muslim radical congregations are demanding and receiving special treatments and "laws" that you personally would never tolerate if it were Christians demanding and receiving such.

Frankly, the muslim faith is totally 100% intolerant of anything not muslim and anyone not muslim and you know it. Even the moderates refuse to publically unify and condemn the radicals because they know, in their faith, that they might be punished for being tolerant.

Islam is about intolerance, not tolerance. It is about subjugating the infidels and bringing the entirety of Earth under the rule of their religion.

That is intolerable to me. Watch the news... you'll see. The USA is going to pay for that mosque (if it gets built) and the current news that several of the major players are directly connected to radical terrorist elements of Islam will only grow. This is not about Islam being tolerant, it's about Islam using American "guilt" and fake tolerance steeped in that guilt to establish a Sharia legal system in the USA and then expand outwards from there.

They will not tolerate any of the things you love. Not your wine and beer. Not your open-mindedness on sex or homosexuals, not your books or your games or anything that isn't spelled out explicitly in their book.
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DWTripp wrote:
The USA is going to pay for that mosque (if it gets built) and the current news that several of the major players are directly connected to radical terrorist elements of Islam will only grow.

Are you talking about that guy that owns a big chunk of Fox News?
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DWTripp wrote:
Chiddler points out intolerance of "some" Christian sects, which is true. But I'm not aware of any that honestly believe that unless Chiddler becomes Christian he should die or be enslaved.


Then you're not familiar with Christian reconstructionism. Anything you have said about muslims in your post would also apply to them.

Anyway, why should you be so surprised that some Christians still hold these beliefs? For a long while around the middle ages, Christians interpreted the Old Testament to the effect that if a nation's people weren't Christian enough, God would punish the whole nation. Thus, anyone insufficiently Christian (or not Christian) was a threat to national security - a traitor, essentially.

That interpretation isn't all that radical either. Jews in old testament times held essentially the same belief.

This idea, that it is a civic obligation to devote yourself to the state's religion, is more widespread in Islam, that's true - but it's far from universal. If you'd like to see that change, I dare say koran burning isn't helping.
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