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Subject: My cutom dice game: FISHFRY...need some advice. rss

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Scott Westgard
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Hello helpful BGGers.
I've just submitted my latest game FISHFRY to BGG for approval.
After play-testing it with some hand draw wooden dice, I finally pulled the trigger and ordered a bunch of laser-engraved dice from Chessex, and now am looking to get the ball rolling with some possible sales and interest. Chessex did a great job too...just had to add that.



Before I put together a finalized set of rules I was hoping some of you might have some advice, or might even have some ideas for variations on how the game might be played.





The game was designed to be a simple fishing dice game that could be played as a quick pass-time, or as a gambling dice game somewhat along the lines of Ship Captain Crew. Posted here are the rules (You'll have to enlarge the jpeg a bit) and a photo of the box art and dice. The game will be sold in a tiny 2x3x1 inch jewelry box, so the box art has to show the dice clearly, and doesn't leave much room for "art" unfortunately.

Any variations on the rules, or Ideas about the game anyone has would be greatly appreciated, and rewarded with a little GGold!

Thank you all
Scott Westgard.
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James Bentley
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Sounds cool. I know several fisherman who would get a big kick out of this game.

The rules are simple, as is scoring.

(By the way, there's a typo, where the word "point" is misspelled as "pont"...)

I like "push-your-luck" dice games and you've themed this one nicely!

Thanks,
jrbentley
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Scott Nicholson
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A few comments from a quick review of the rules:

- Is it really a fishing dice game? I would hope for more of a feeling of actually fishing. I'm not sure about what piecing together a head, a tail, and body parts has to do with fishing. The concept of a fishing dice game is interesting, but for someone who liked to fish, this would not be the game that would present any of the feelings of fishing.

- Are there many interesting decisions to make? From reading the rules, it seems that the choices would be obvious. Get a head and tail, then try to get high numbers. The big decision is "do I reroll a 5 or 10 hoping for more"?

I think you could think more deeply about the game to put in more interesting decisions.

The three-rolls-and-done mechanic has been used heavily. Since you have a natural timer (the panfish), why not let players roll as many times as possible, and if all they roll are panfish, then their fish gets away?

(unless they roll 5 panfish in one roll, but again - I question that element. Do you really want a pure luck element on one roll to be worth so many points? Does that reward good game play?)

I would add some kind of a stronger press-your-luck element. Maybe after you make a fish, you can record that score (reel it in), and reroll those dice, but again, all panfish on a roll and you lose it all. I would drop the 5-panfish-to-automatically-win roll, and instead, you would lose your turn, as you rolled all panfish.

Just some thoughts.

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Scott Westgard
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The All panfish roll is a bit ridiculous as a big winner...I was also thinking something along the lines that if a "FISHFRY" is rolled, all players would have to eat a fish they have already caught, or donate a fish to the fishfrying player...Good thoughts...thanks.

I'm looking for ways to make some multiple round variations on the game too. I'm not even too opposed to adding some sort of chips or tokens to act as lures, for extra rolls, or to make the game more like a fishing tournament.


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Sebastian Henke
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What about giving a big bonus for catching two fish? At the moment a second fish doesn't seem to be desirable, it scores really low.

I think it would make more interesting gameplay if I'm encouraged to keep an additional head or tail in hopes of completing a second fish. On their own they are worthless, even the panfish scores more with its one point. So if I take a gamble for a second fish shouldn't I be rewarded more if I succeed?

Maybe I would double the score that round with two completed fish. Or just bump up the score for a completed fish considerably, but somehow double score on everything sounds more fun to me.

Now if it just were six dice I could even go for a tripple fish...
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Scott Westgard
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Now thats an interesting idea Sebastian. Going for 2 fish at a time should have some reward. Doubling the score could get as high as 80 points, while the biggest fish normally is 70. It also gives players more decisions (which is what I'd like to see). Thank you!

6 dice is getting a little expensive in production costs at the moment, but I will consider it...perhaps as a deep sea variety...for "Big Game Fish."

Edit: Now that I think of it, 6 dice is not impossible. It might actually add a lot more of the push your luck strategy too, since 2 dice always have to be tied up in the head and the tail...
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Jonan Jello
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♫ As the masters rot on walls ♫ And the angels eat their grapes ♫ I watched Picasso Visit The Planet Of The Apes ♫
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Scott, the game looks really nice. Love the artwork. You've got a wonderful cartoony style. I too like the idea of 6 dice.

Should FISHFRY be two separate words? The font and lack of space between words could be mistaken for FISHERY.

Variation? When I see that large fish roll, it looks like a Pike with its sharp teeth and torpedo-like body. So I'm thinking it would be neat to include a bonus or penalty roll for such a roll depicted below:

Perhaps the Pike gobbles up the small fish and no point is earned?
Or the Pike subtracts 5 points from an opponent's score?

Perhaps a variation for multiple fish heads rolled on the first roll? If You roll a certain number of fish heads, you subtract an amount of points from your opponent's score?

By the way, how do I reserve a copy of the game!


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Daniel Cassar
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For me the 20's are too high and have a massive impact considering this is a luck game. I couldn't be bothered working out the percentages so I used a pair of normal dice giving a number value to each picture.

Here were my scores:

1) 10 points
2) 0 points
3) 0 points
4) 50 points
5) 60 points

In this case it took me 5 turns to get to 100. But as you can see I got 110 in my last 2 rolls alone. It feels as though the posibility of a 50 point variation in scores in a single round is very likely, for a game where you reach 100 points that is a massive amount.

----
My thoughts on a possible variation:
----

This theme is a fishing competition where each player are out in their own boats trying to catch the largest fish possible.

Roll once and count how many panfish appear. This represents how many goes players have to catch the largest fish they can.

0 - 1 panfish = one fish bighting
2 panfish = two fish bighting
3 panfish = three fish bighting etc...

(they roll and 2 panfish appear this means each player gets two trys to get as larger fish as possible)

For each fish bighting the players then secretly roll as per your rules trying to get the "largest" fish they can as though it was a fishing competition.

They record the sizes of each of their fish as they go.

(Bob gets 0 on their first attempt but 30 on his second)
(Sam gets 50 points on their first attempt and 10 points on their second)


After both players have finished rolling they each reveal their fish sizes to each other.

The player with the largest fish gets 15 points, second largest gets 10 points and 6 points for the 3rd largest.

1st. Sam (50) 15 points
2nd. Bob (30) 10 points
3rd. Sam (10) 6 points


* This should bring tension and excitement into the game as you don't know how big a risk you should take as you don't know how lucky the other player is rolling.
* It more tightly follows a theme.
* 31 points is the largest possible point variation and that would be VERY difficult to get.
* The more players the more fun and competitive this should be.

Ofcourse there is always the chance someone could cheat but in the spirit of good competition I'm assuming this won't happen

Players then play multiple rounds until they reach a pre-determined score.
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Scott Westgard
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Quote:
Should FISHFRY be two separate words? The font and lack of space between words could be mistaken for FISHERY.


Actually Fishery was my first choice of names for the game, but since a "Fish Fry" has an activity attributed to it I thought it might work in the game to "Fry -Up" all those little fish. Nothing is written in stone yet!, and I welcome possible other names. I was also thinking "Fishy Fish" but it sounded a little too juvenile, and I wanted to appeal to some of the gambling dice players. Fishfry also is a little misleading - indicating a food themed game.

Quote:

By the way, how do I reserve a copy of the game!


Consider it reserved sir! I have only made up about 40 games (33 if I go with 6 dice) The dice were expensive, each set of 5 cost ME over $10, but that is ok for initial promotional copies. I expect to sell the game for about $18-$20 When We get some good strategic rules ironed out, I will Geekmail you.

Quote:
For each fish bighting the players then secretly roll as per your rules trying to get the "largest" fish they can as though it was a fishing competition.

They record the sizes of each of their fish as they go.


I have thought of trying to make secret rolls in the game usefull...and your idea does appeal to me. ( I also agree that the 20 is very powerful... but that often tempts players into KEEPING it even if they have not rolled a head or tail yet.. a good push your luck thing) I do agree that perhaps totaling the exact score of each round is not as good as accumulating 1st, 2nd and 3rd place trophies, each worth various VPs. I have even tried to consider how to make some bluffing involved-fishermen do exaggerate!

I would think that rolling "The Lake" to see how good the fishing is that day would be a good way to simulate real fishing too.
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Celina
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I have nothing to add on the gameplay, I just love the way these look.
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Scott Westgard
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Thanks!
Part of the lure (pun intended) of the game is unique arty dice. I'm sure some marketing genius could sell a truckload at Christmastime to the fishing world....BUT... I do want to see the game become successful not just as a quick, somewhat mindless game for drunken fishermen in Wisconsin's bars to gamble on. It must ALSO be a REAL game centered around strategy and replayability. Therein lies my crisis. The gambling variation works better than most drinking/gambling dice games. I have even figured out all sorts of house-rules for making it a drinking game, but I do want it to be taken seriously as a decent family game, with a set of REAL rules that add intrigue to the cute little dice. I dont want to promote it as a gambling game, even though it is much better than most games like Ship-Captain-Crew. I think it needs to be introduced with 2 sets of rules.

I welcome all sorts of thoughts. I know it is a strongly luck-based game, and even I am not drawn to games which are nearly purely luck. In fact I become unamused after 5-10 rounds of those types of games. Even special artsy dice cannot take that ball and chain away from this game. It NEEDS some twists, some challenges, and some strategic choices.

That is why I beg of the BGGers...Help! I dont want to be known as the guy who made nice dice, but bland games. Again I thank you all for helping out with setting some paths out for making the game a real game, not just luck. (It figures I would try and make something like fishing, a sport with a considerable amount of luck, into a game with less luck.....::: pulling hair out:::: )

cry
 
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David Etherton
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NoodleArtist wrote:

Consider it reserved sir! I have only made up about 40 games (33 if I go with 6 dice) The dice were expensive, each set of 5 cost ME over $10, but that is ok for initial promotional copies.


http://www.chessex.com/Dice/Custom_Dice_Home.htm

Having gone through their process, do you happen to know if (for example) an order of 100 dice costs $0.60/face ($60/face total), or is it $1/face for the first 25 ($25/face), then $0.75/face for the next 74 ($55.50/face) and then $0.60/face for the 100th one (a little over $80 total). (In other words, is it cheaper to order 100 dice than 99)

-Dave

EDIT: dices?!?!? duh....
 
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Scott Westgard
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David, Chessex always offers lower prices per dice for orders over a certain amount. Talk to their representative...Joe was very helpful, and offered a slight discount if I ordered a certain type of ink and die type....although I might be shot for telling you that...They are willing to work with you to get you what you like at a reasonable price...Very great company there! In general ALL/EACH dice are priced at one rate depending on volume.
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