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Subject: No more territory markers rss

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Robert
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Lebanon
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The other day I played a 5 player game in which I owned 4 islands. The sphinx came up and I purchased her and used her to sell all my ships, all my priests and almost all my troops in a grand bid to end the game that turn. With the Zeus cycling power I then started to cycle until I found Pegasus, flew over to an opponents island with a metropolis with my remaining troops and invaded. I failed. This left me with four empty islands.

The general rule in Cyclades is that if you run out of a resource (cornucopias, priests) you are out of luck and just don't get any. I ran out of territory markers to mark all my islands. We solved the issue by laying down a soldier of mine on the island without a marker. Should I have given up an island (leave it empty)?

Oh, BTW, I did win two turns later because I was able to pocket and save most of the cash of the sphinx sale.
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Cameron Chien
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You have an extra bidding marker in a 5 player game, or did you use that already?

Cameron
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László Horváth
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You should not give up Your island. Just use something else as a marker.
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Ronald Tweakston
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I agree with the others. Use whatever means to mark the possession of an island where all soldiers were removed.

There is a conclusion on page 5 under Special Actions:Ares (Move Troops):(3rd Bullet) implying this interpretation:
Quote:
(An isle owned by a player can therefore never become neutral again).


The reasoning is incomplete considering the other possibility of troop removal by actions of mythological creature cards such as the sphinx, harpy or pegasus.

However, unlike the limits to the number of ships or soldiers placed on the board, there is no explicit rule limiting the number of terrritory tokens nor is there a general rule about depleted game components.

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bruno cathala
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It s really exceptionnal to need more than 3 territory markers. But if you need, use anything else you have to mark your territory
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Robert
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Bruno des Montagnes wrote:
It s really exceptionnal to need more than 3 territory markers. But if you need, use anything else you have to mark your territory

Confirmation by the designer himself! Thanks Bruno!

Thanks to everyone else too for chipping in!
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Ronald Tweakston
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Is there a general rule about running out of cornucopia markers, priests or philosophers?
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Cameron Chien
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Can't get anymore, is how I would play it.

Cameron
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Robert
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Yes, the designers have confirmed that with priests and cornucopias: when you are out, then too bad, they will no longer be available. Apollo won't give a free cornucopia anymore and Zeus will not grant priests until they become available again. Note that it is not possible to run out of philosophers.

As far as I know there has not been a question or answer on how to handle running out of buildings, but I would handle it the same if it came up: not available for purchase if they are all gone.
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Ronald Tweakston
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"Zeus in 2p" and "No more cornucopias" are where the designers discuss resource depletion.

Bruno asserts in "Zeus in 2p":
Quote:
Now, for ironjames, if you run out of priest cards, you just don't get one more priest when choosing zeus ! This situation is theorically possible, but it never happened to me


It looks like the cornucopia question has yet to be resolved as of Sept. 12, 2010, though Fabien says tentatively in "No more cornucopias":
Quote:
The cornucopias, as the priests and philosophers and gold are supposed to be infinite supply, so I guess you would replace them with something else.


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Robert
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Tweaksy wrote:
"Zeus in 2p" and "No more cornucopias" are where the designers discuss resource depletion.

Bruno asserts in "Zeus in 2p":
Quote:
Now, for ironjames, if you run out of priest cards, you just don't get one more priest when choosing zeus ! This situation is theorically possible, but it never happened to me


It looks like the cornucopia question has yet to be resolved as of Sept. 12, 2010, though Fabien says tentatively in "No more cornucopias":
Quote:
The cornucopias, as the priests and philosophers and gold are supposed to be infinite supply, so I guess you would replace them with something else.



Thanks for doing the research. I could've sworn I saw that question on cornucopias go the other way, but I can't find it, so I guess I am mistaken.

Honestly, it makes more sense to me to consider all these resources (cornucopias, priests, gold, builddings, etc) endless supplies. You can always grab a D6 and put it on top of a resource, using the face up value as a multiplier.

It works either way for me, but it should all work one way, with one general rule. There's either endless supplies of everything (in which case it's no biggie if you loose a token, which is another reason wwhy I like it), or there's limited supplies of everything. The current 2-way ruling on this is confusing.
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Ronald Tweakston
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There's no harm in stipulating a house rule on this issue. Its clear the designers did not intend for these situations to occur but there's always that one odd game, isn't there, like the one discribed in the first post. Whichever way the game is played, I suspect it is important that soldiers and ships continue to be limited to 8 each as it says in the rules. Essentially, we're figuring what rules would be in a cumbersome but thorough tournament rule set.
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Robert
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I hate house rules. We do rule on the fly and to the best of our ability if a situation comes up that is not anticipated in the rules, but I usually try and get a clear answer later on how that situation should've been handled (hence my original post.)

I also don't believe that it is somehow more cumbersome to have clear rules than to have unclear rules. This argument gets used often in these kind of discussions ("you can't possibly plan for every eventuality; the rulebook would be 100s of pages thick!") but as far as I'm concerned it's just an excuse for less than perfect rule writing. For example: in the base set of Dominion the rules are absolutely clear in all situations I've come across, yet nothing gets bogged down because of it.

I am not saying the rules to this game are poorly written, I actually think they've done a commendable job in clearly laying out the rules, but in the "fringe areas", when out of the ordinary things happen, that the rules could've had a little more meat to them. The fact that somewhere someone in some game will run out of a limited supply of tokens, no matter how many are supplied, should not come as a surprise (this goes for very game, by the way, not just Cyclades, and there are surprisingly few that address this until the FAQ comes out)

Oh, and I think that I've used a fire sale tactic with the sphinx to some extend in about 5 of the last 10 games I played. It's a very effective way of raising money while "Zeusing" for the right cards to win you the game, so I am not sure that I agree that it is even that rare to run out of markers.
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Adrian Todea
Australia
Adelaide
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My copy has 18 priests, with the rulebook saying 16.
So it can be even more confusing, to limit or not to limit, and if yes, to what number?
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Ronald Tweakston
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Rulebook says "18 Priest cards" on the 1st page under "CONTENTS" in my game purchased in the US of A. Translation by Eric Harlaux, revision by Eric & Stephanie Franklin. Is that the same for Australia?

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Ben Boersma
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Clyde North
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No the numbers are different in my rulebook as well.
The manifest says: 18 Mythological Creature cards, 16 Philosopher cards and 16 Priest cards.

Yet what I got was: 18 Priest cards, 17 Philosopher cards and 17 Mythological Creature cards.

I hope I have the right numbers. If so, could be the Aussie batch?

Thanks to Ronald who directed me over here too
Cheers,
Ben
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Rommie
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If gold coins are limited how to distribute them among players when they ends?
 
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