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Hi BGG wargamers,

I'm searching major information about Operation Merkur and I've only three books about this battle and only one wargame Hunters from the Sky by The Gamers/TCS series.
It's a good wg, with good OOB and maps but it's a little old too.
I know there are some wgs in the BGG data but I need better and more accurate advice.
Can someone of You, gentle and patient war-masters, answer my question?

F.
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Re: Italy calling: need help about Operation Merkur, the Battle for Creta!
Marita-Merkur can be found on eBay.
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Re: Italy calling: need help about Operation Merkur, the Battle for Creta!
Hungadunga wrote:
Marita-Merkur ...


Thank You HD,

I know this "old" wg, what I'm searching is something more historical in deep (both levels: Tactical or Strategical) and accurate but absolutely updated, if exists!

F.
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Re: Italy calling: need help about Operation Merkur, the Battle for Creta!
Filippo Chiari wrote:
... Can someone of You, gentle and patient war-master, answer my question?


Could you clarify exactly what your 'question' is? Are you looking for reference material on the invasion of Crete? In terms of wargames, Descent on Crete would likely provide alot of OoB information, and detailed maps. Which books have you already read? Are you simply looking for additional materials? Or something more detailed?
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Re: Italy calling: need help about Operation Merkur, the Battle for Creta!
I don't think 17 years really counts as old where WW2 wargames are concerned. (Note that Marita-Merkur is again older by half.) The major problem with Hunters would be that it only covers the fighting around Maleme.

If a battalion level OOB is OK, then probably Operation Mercury is the best bet at this point. There are some newer games on the whole battle (e.g., Crète 1941: Opération Merkur), but they are less detailed.
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Re: Italy calling: need help about Operation Merkur, the Battle for Creta!
deadkenny wrote:
In terms of wargames, Descent on Crete would likely provide alot of OoB information, and detailed maps.

I would actually advise against that game; Descent on Crete is infamous for the liberties it took with OOB and deployment information (from what I recall of the accusations, it apparently invented and misplaced whole regiments).
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Re: Italy calling: need help about Operation Merkur, the Battle for Creta!
Be cool to have a game that included the naval aspect.

The Italians sortied their fleet to support this operation and some good naval action ensued
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Re: Italy calling: need help about Operation Merkur, the Battle for Creta!
deadkenny wrote:
... Are you looking for reference material on the invasion of Crete? Yes ... Which books have you already read? (*) Are you simply looking for additional materials? (Not only) Or something more detailed? (Yes)


You are right "deadkenny".

(*) My only specific books are:

- A.Bevoor - Crete
- W.Gericke - Soldaten fallen von Himmel
- HS - The German Campaigns in the Balkans (Spring 1941) / CoMH USArmy

And other books that deal with the argument superficially or in general.
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Re: Italy calling: need help about Operation Merkur, the Battle for Creta!
Troymk1 wrote:
Be cool to have a game that included the naval aspect.

Operation Mercury does that.
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Re: Italy calling: need help about Operation Merkur, the Battle for Creta!
M St wrote:
I don't think 17 years really counts as old where WW2 wargames are concerned.


I agree with You M St,

For me "old" don't mean surpassed or useless, only I need new references maybe outputs from the archives more recently.
Thank you for your answer.


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Re: Italy calling: need help about Operation Merkur, the Battle for Creta!
Air Assault On Crete/Invasion of Malta: 1942 Does a decent job.

BTW I am also in the midst of doing reseach for a Victory poing Games "Battle Lesson" mini-game on the Battle for Crete. Using my "No Retreat!" game system.

I would be more than happy to share what I have found.
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Re: Italy calling: need help about Operation Merkur, the Battle for Creta!

Filipo,

THE source for information on the Wehrmacht is the 'Militärgeschichtliches Forschungsamt (Hrsg.)' and everything about Merkur you will find here:

Militärgeschichtliches Forschungsamt (Hrsg.): Das Deutsche Reich und der Zweite Weltkrieg, Bd.3, Der Mittelmeerraum und Südosteuropa, Stuttgart 1984, ISBN 3-421-06097-5.

To my knowledge, it is only available in German and if you are from Süd- Tirol in Italy it should not be a problem. However, if you can't read German it is not of much help I guess.

Anyhow, my 2 cents.
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Re: Italy calling: need help about Operation Merkur, the Battle for Creta!
Hi Harae,

Danke, Ich lebe nicht in Südtirol, aber meine Kenntnisse der deutschen Sprache ist ausreichend.

Do you know if these documents are available only on-line or can I find them otherwise?

ThkU, F.
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Re: Italy calling: need help about Operation Merkur, the Battle for Crete!
Hungadunga wrote:
Marita-Merkur can be found on eBay.


It may be my failing memory, but I don't recall this game having a scenario or specific OB information on the invasion of Crete.
 
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Re: Italy calling: need help about Operation Merkur, the Battle for Crete!
M St wrote:
deadkenny wrote:
In terms of wargames, Descent on Crete would likely provide alot of OoB information, and detailed maps.

I would actually advise against that game; Descent on Crete is infamous for the liberties it took with OOB and deployment information (from what I recall of the accusations, it apparently invented and misplaced whole regiments).


Interesting, I recall reading that it was Air Assault On Crete/Invasion of Malta: 1942 that had these issues. IIRC Descent on Crete did have some errata regarding unit designations, but it was relatively minor.
 
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Re: Italy calling: need help about Operation Merkur, the Battle for Crete!
deadkenny wrote:
Interesting, I recall reading that it was Air Assault On Crete/Invasion of Malta: 1942 that had these issues. IIRC Descent on Crete did have some errata regarding unit designations, but it was relatively minor.
AAOC certainly was a bit further towards "game" rather than "simulation" end of the spectrum compared to the later games - note that Operation Mercury is by the same designer and more detailed on the non-ground aspects, so it would presumably supersede any research done for the earlier game.

You won't find the Descent of Crete issues in any errata, apparently at least part of the changes were made intentionally. Here's a CSW link on the issue...

http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@78.nTLcbcYCt7K.204@.ee6e...
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Re: Italy calling: need help about Operation Merkur, the Battle for Crete!
Filippo Chiari wrote:
Hi Harae,

Danke, Ich lebe nicht in Südtirol, aber meine Kenntnisse der deutschen Sprache ist ausreichend.

Do you know if these documents are available only on-line or can I find them otherwise?

ThkU, F.


Filippo,

Volume no. 3 is availble through Amazon.com, it has 733 pages and costs 49,95 Euro. I am not sure how many pages exactly are dealing with Merkur but Schreiber is the most renomated historian in Germany and so are his works.

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Re: Italy calling: need help about Operation Merkur, the Battle for Crete!
M St wrote:
deadkenny wrote:
Interesting, I recall reading that it was Air Assault On Crete/Invasion of Malta: 1942 that had these issues. IIRC Descent on Crete did have some errata regarding unit designations, but it was relatively minor.
AAOC certainly was a bit further towards "game" rather than "simulation" end of the spectrum compared to the later games - note that Operation Mercury is by the same designer and more detailed on the non-ground aspects, so it would presumably supersede any research done for the earlier game.

You won't find the Descent of Crete issues in any errata, apparently at least part of the changes were made intentionally. Here's a CSW link on the issue...

http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@78.nTLcbcYCt7K.204@.ee6e...


Thanks for the link. It appears that, other than the 'minor shifting' of one hex to avoid having to deal with in-hex combat (i.e. German units landing 'on top of' CW units) the main variation is that a German regiment was included in the game that did not participate in the actual battle historically. I don't see any suggestion that there is anything wrong with the CW OoB, or the rest of the German one beyond that one extra regiment.
 
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Re: Italy calling: need help about Operation Merkur, the Battle for Crete!
Filippo Chiari wrote:
deadkenny wrote:
... Are you looking for reference material on the invasion of Crete? Yes ... Which books have you already read? (*) Are you simply looking for additional materials? (Not only) Or something more detailed? (Yes)


You are right "deadkenny".

(*) My only specific books are:

- A.Bevoor - Crete
- W.Gericke - Soldaten fallen von Himmel
- HS - The German Campaigns in the Balkans (Spring 1941) / CoMH USArmy

And other books that deal with the argument superficially or in general.


One source worth checking out is the New Zealand Official History of WWII, which goes into some detail on Crete (for obvious reasons).
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Re: Italy calling: need help about Operation Merkur, the Battle for Crete!
Hello there!

Another suggestion is Comet, which is small, but freely available here http://www.kcl.ac.uk/schools/sspp/ws/people/academic/profess... and has some notes about the orbat if I remember.

I know Andy (the designer) and believe he did quite a lot of work on it at the time.

Matt
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Re-edited the Subject.

And a first thank to all answers so far.



F.
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mcszarka wrote:
Hungadunga wrote:
Marita-Merkur can be found on eBay.


It may be my failing memory, but I don't recall this game having a scenario or specific OB information on the invasion of Crete.


Marita Merkur and its successor Balkan Front do cover Crete, but at very small scale - they are primarily games of the Italo-Greek War, then the intervention by the Germans and invasion of Jugoslavia and Greece. The battle for Crete, it it happens at all, is likely to take only a turn or two. A great game, but you won't learn a lot about the Crete battle.

Air Assault on Crete mentioned above does do the Crete battles at battalion/company scale and although it's a little dated, it still plays very nicely.
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deadkenny wrote:
......

One source worth checking out is the New Zealand Official History of WWII, which goes into some detail on Crete (for obvious reasons).


All of the NZ official history is online. The Crete volume is here:

http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/tei-WH2Cret.html

Richard

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You might consider this miniature battle resource. These guys are pretty good about the research they do for the scenarios.

http://www.fireandfury.com/scenarios/maleme.pdf
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