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Subject: BGG Zendo Game 8, Round 8 - WINNER! rss

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Darin Stephenson
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Welcome to Zendo 8, Round 8! Feel free to join in, even if you’ve never played before.

Here are links to previous rounds of this game. If you’re new to Zendo, the rules of the game and the Geek natures used in previous games can be found in the link to Round 1.

Round 1: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geekjournal.php3?action=viewcom...
Round 2: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geekjournal.php3?action=viewcom...
Round 3: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geekjournal.php3?action=viewcom...
Round 4: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geekjournal.php3?action=viewcom...
Round 5: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geekjournal.php3?action=viewcom...
Round 6: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geekjournal.php3?action=viewcom...
Round 7: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geekjournal.php3?action=viewcom...


No new Camels:

The Round 6 Mondo lists were:

mondo(6): Acquire, Lost Cities (mjwills)

mondo(6): Acquire, Tikal, Diplomacy, Go, My Word! (#2781), Tichu, Money(#125), Quarto, Clans, Blokus, Citadels (rynelf)

Both of these lists do have the Geek nature. I received guesses from rynelf, Rubric, and mjwills, all of which were, unfortunately, incorrect. The updated camel listings are given below. Note: I got a last minute Mondo guess from fteplin, that apparently arrived while I was posting this round. He correctly identified the first list as having the Geek nature, so I've added a camel.

mjwills: (2-1) goldencamel
DeSangre: (3-0) goldencamelgoldencamelgoldencamel
jwijm: (3-1) goldencamelgoldencamel
Rubric: (8-1) goldencamelgoldencamelgoldencamelgoldencamelgoldencamelgoldencamelgoldencamel
rynelf: (5-3) goldencamelgoldencamel
TomVasel: (2-0) goldencamelgoldencamel
Orphius: (4-0) goldencamelgoldencamelgoldencamelgoldencamel
royby: (4-0) goldencamelgoldencamelgoldencamelgoldencamel
WonderCinz: (2-0) goldencamelgoldencamel
s2alexan: (3-0) goldencamelgoldencamelgoldencamel
fteplin: (2-0+1) goldencamelgoldencamelgoldencamel

New Lists:

Three new Master lists this time – 2 with, 1 without. Note: The Round 7 Master list of fteplin also came in while I posted this (or shortly after). It has the Geek nature, and I've added it below.

Has the Geek Nature:
Exemplar(1): Attika, Carcassonne, Kurre kvik, Illuminati, Scrabble
mjwills/master(1): Attika, Carcassonne, Arns rike, Illuminati, Scrabble
Rubric/master(1): Melee, Illuminati, Magic Realm
jwilhm/master(1): Carcassonne
rynelf/mondo(1): Manhattan, Serenissima, Mystery of the Abbey
TomVasel/mondo(1): Fluxx
DeSangre/mondo(1): Go, M
mjwills/master(2): Arns rike, Carcassonne, Attika, Illuminati, Scrabble
Rubric/master(2): Magic Realm
s2alexan/master(2): Ra (#12)
rynelf/mondo(2): Tannenberg(#9315), Ursuppe, Verräter, Wyatt Earp(#878)
mjwills/counterexample(3): Power Grid, The Settlers of Catan, Risk, Dungeon Twister, die Macher
mjwills/counterexample(3): Euphrat & Tigris, El Grande, Attika
Orphius/master(3): M, Go
WonderCinz/counterexample(4): Arkham Horror, Super Giant Monster Showdown, SPQR, The Concorde Game, Mr. President
fteplin/master(4): Scrabble
mjwills/master(4): Illuminati, Magic Realm, Melee
mjwills/counterexample(5): Money Monsoon, McMulti, Trajan
mjwills/counterexample(5): Acquire, Lost Cities, Spongebob Squarepants - Deep Sea Duel, Bollox
mjwills/master(5): Acquire, Lost Cities, Spongebob Squarepants - Deep Sea Duel
WonderCinz/master(5): Power Grid, The Settlers of Catan, Risk, Dungeon Twister, die Macher, Scrabble
jwilhm/master(6): Settlers of Catan
fteplin/master(6): Fluxx, Go, Scrabble, M, Attika
Rubric/master(6): Ra (#12), Go
mjwills/mondo(6): Acquire, Lost Cities
rynelf/mondo(6): Acquire, Tikal, Diplomacy, Go, My Word! (#2781), Tichu, Money(#125), Quarto, Clans, Blokus, Citadels
Rubric/counterexample(7): David & Goliath, Extinction, Ben Hur (#1396), Ben Hvr (#13033), Ben Hurt
mjwills/counterexample(7): Campanile, Scrabble, Buried Treasure
rynelf/counterexample(7): Fluxx, Illuminati, Euphrat & Tigris
rynelf/counterexample(7): Fluxx, Euphrat & Tigris, Attika
jwilhm/counterexample(7): Buffy the Vampire Slayer: The Game, Klunker
mjwills/master(7): Acquire
WonderCinz/master(7): Scrabble, Scrabble
fteplin/master(7): Scrabble, Illuminati, Carcassonne, Attika, Power Grid, Go
jwilhm/counterexample(8): die Macher, Dragonmaster
fteplin/counterexample(8): City, 90 Grad

Does NOT have the Geek Nature:
Exemplar(1): Melee, Wizard (#3463), Car Wars, Munchkin
Scurra/master(1): Attika
royby/mondo(1): Citadels, Fist of Dragonstones, Queen's Necklace
WonderCinz/mondo(1): Attika, Carcassonne, Kurre kvik, Illuminati, Melee
wilco86/mondo(1): War of the Ring (#9609), Monopoly: Lord of the Rings Trilogy Edition, Lord of the Rings - Sauron, Lord of the Rings - Friends & Foes, Lord of the Rings (#823)
Orphius/master(2): Melee, Munchkin
jwilhm/master(2): Balloon Cup
WonderCinz/master(2): Attika, Carcassonne, Kurre kvik, Illuminati
DeSangre/master(2): M, Attika
TomVasel/mondo(2): Entdecker, Ark of the Covenant, Wooly Bully, Delta V
mjwills/master(3): Election 2000
Rubric/master(3): Reef Encounter
WonderCinz/master(3): Attika, Carcassonne, Kurre kvik
WonderCinz/master(4): Attika, Carcassonne
Rubric/master(4): Power Grid
rynelf/mondo(4): Caribbean, Bladder, Differix, Frogger, Godzilla, Lustigkurre, Rosetta, Tocce
rynelf/mondo(5): Ali Baba(#3889), Galileo, Gogol
rynelf/counterexample(7): Fluxx, Power Grid, Attika
Rubric/master(7): Carcassonne, Attika
jwilhm/counterexample(8): die Macher, The Road Runner Pop-up Game
fteplin/counterexample(8): Trout - The Most Realistic Fishing Game Ever, The Plaza!


New Mondo Lists

This Mondo list was posted in Round 7. Please send your Mondo guess on this list by private message to the Master before noon BGG time (U.S. Central Standard) on Thursday, March 3. I will let you change your Mondo votes right up to the time of the posting of the next round.

mondo(7): Fluxx, Funkenschlag(#12166), Attika (rynelf)

Use Those Shiny Camels!!

If you'd like to use a camel to take a guess, feel free. The used camels will be melted down and converted into gold coins, so that we can buy new golden camels for the next round. Remember that I've decided to reward the person guessing with new information, even if the guess is not feasible based on known information.

Notes: Caribbean is being used as the name of game #13301. The primary name in the database is Karibik. Lustigkurre is being used as the name of #15442. The primary name of this game is Spas-mager. Finally, Wooly Bully is game #3243, also known as La Guerre des Moutons. And, a piece of advice: if you need to do a search for the game M, be sure to click the box for ‘exact title search’. Otherwise, you get quite a few games…
 
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JEREMY WILHM
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I give up...
I've racked my brain and wasted enough time trying to figure this one out. I'm done. Can I give my camels to someone else?
 
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Darin Stephenson
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Quote:
I've racked my brain and wasted enough time trying to figure this one out. I'm done. Can I give my camels to someone else?


Probably it's not fair to give away the camels, but I could give two pieces of info for them (for all to see...). OK?
 
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Frank Teplin
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Camel trading
Thanks for adding in my late replies...

Can I also donate two camels to the hint factory?
 
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Darin Stephenson
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4 camels, 4 lists
By the generosity of jwilhm and fteplin, four camels have been returned to the Master. Here are the relevant lists.

The following do have the Geek nature:

jwilhm/counterexample(8): die Macher, Dragonmaster
fteplin/counterexample(8): City, 90 Grad

The following do not have the Geek nature:

jwilhm/counterexample(8): die Macher, The Road Runner Pop-up Game
fteplin/counterexample(8): Trout - The Most Realistic Fishing Game Ever, The Plaza!
 
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Matthew Wills
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My brain hurts.

None of my theories work. I have been working on the possibility of even numbers being the last digit of the last game's game id. Or the first digit of the first game's game id being the same or +1 or -1 of the last digit of the last game's game id.

And none of them work. angry
 
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Frank Teplin
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Game IDs
I think Game IDs is the key, even if I can't for the life of me figure it out. C'mon, players, let's pool our thoughts!

Recent counterexample IDs:

Geek:
1,2
900,990

Nongeek:
1,10001
12000,12498
 
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Matthew Wills
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Carcassonne (single list) and Attika (single list) are the ones that seem to wreck all my theories...
 
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Frank Teplin
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Single list IDs and thoughts
Geeky
5 (Acquire)
822 (Carcassonne)
258 (Fluxx)
22 (Magic Realm)
12 (Ra)
320 (Scrabble)
13 (Settlers of Catan)
recent counterexamples:
1, 2
900, 990

Non-geeky
8051 (Attika)
5716 (Balloon Cup)
9448 (Election 2000)
12962 (Reef Encounter)
2651 (Power Grid)
recent counterexamples:
1,10001
12000, 12498

Clearly, something about the simplicity of the geeky numbers. It's beyond my comprehension at the moment.

Any thoughts as to whether it's a rule of type:

A) The first/last/total # of games have XYZ quality in their first/last/total digits.

OR

B) At least ONE game on the list has a ID with XYZ quality.

?

I'm leaning towards "B," as Scrabble (320) and Magic Realm (22) seem to make these lists geeky:
Exemplar(1): Attika, Carcassonne, Kurre kvik, Illuminati, Scrabble
mjwills/master(1): Attika, Carcassonne, Arns rike, Illuminati, Scrabble
Rubric/master(1): Melee, Illuminati, Magic Realm
mjwills/master(2): Arns rike, Carcassonne, Attika, Illuminati, Scrabble
mjwills/master(4): Illuminati, Magic Realm, Melee
fteplin/master(6): Fluxx, Go, Scrabble, M, Attika
fteplin/master(7): Scrabble, Illuminati, Carcassonne, Attika, Power Grid, Go

...while their absence is particularly noted from these similar non-geeky lists:
WonderCinz/mondo(1): Attika, Carcassonne, Kurre kvik, Illuminati, Melee
WonderCinz/master(2): Attika, Carcassonne, Kurre kvik, Illuminati
WonderCinz/master(3): Attika, Carcassonne, Kurre kvik
WonderCinz/master(4): Attika, Carcassonne
rynelf/counterexample(7): Fluxx, Power Grid, Attika
Rubric/master(7): Carcassonne, Attika


Anyone care to rewrite all the geek and non-geek lists as Game ID lists?
 
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Matthew Wills
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Other things to consider.

a) Number of words in each entry.
b) Number of letters in each entry.
 
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Matthew Wills
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Quote:
B) At least ONE game on the list has a ID with XYZ quality.


It can't be that. Attika is not geeky, but Carcassonne is. Yet together, they are not.
 
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Dave Peters
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Powers:Coleridge:Milton: Faith...must be, if anything, a clear-eyed recognition of the patterns and tendencies, to be found in every piece of the world's fabric, which are the lineaments of God.
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lists by gameid.
Quote:
Anyone care to rewrite all the geek and non-geek lists as Game ID lists?


Sure, no problem:
----
G: 8051 822 15638 859 320
G: 8051 822 15456 859 320
G: 3464 859 22
G: 822
G: 199 232 915
G: 258
G: 188 872
G: 15456 822 8051 859 320
G: 22
G: 12
G: 9315 124 72 878
G: 2651 13 181 12995 1
G: 42 93 8051
G: 872 188
G: 34 955 1444 10101 476
G: 320
G: 859 22 3464
G: 14677 147 741
G: 5 50 6473 69
G: 5 50 6473
G: 2651 13 181 12995 1 320
G: 13
G: 258 188 320 872 8051
G: 12 188
G: 5 50
G: 5 54 483 188 2781 215 125 681 4636 2453 478
G: 44 275 1396 13033 965
G: 301 320 198
G: 258 859 42
G: 258 42 8051
G: 805 102
G: 5
G: 320 320
G: 320 859 822 8051 2651 188
G: 1 2
G: 900 990
N: 3464 3463 2795 1927
N: 8051
N: 478 4471 6068
N: 8051 822 15638 859 3464
N: 9609 8041 3819 2449 823
N: 3464 1927
N: 5716
N: 8051 822 15638 859
N: 872 8051
N: 200 6779 3243 2817
N: 9448
N: 12962
N: 8051 822 15638
N: 8051 822
N: 2651
N: 13301 2171 7611 6598 9776 15442 4033 6423
N: 3889 1630 3437
N: 258 2651 8051
N: 822 8051
N: 1 10001
N: 12000 12498
----

What's more, here's the list by factored gameid, in case that last wasn't geeky enough:
----
G: 97*83 137*3*2 1117*7*2 859 5*2*2*2*2*2*2
G: 97*83 137*3*2 23*7*3*2*2*2*2*2 859 5*2*2*2*2*2*2
G: 433*2*2*2 859 11*2
G: 137*3*2
G: 199 29*2*2*2 61*5*3
G: 43*3*2
G: 47*2*2 109*2*2*2
G: 23*7*3*2*2*2*2*2 137*3*2 97*83 859 5*2*2*2*2*2*2
G: 11*2
G: 3*2*2
G: 23*5*3*3*3*3 31*2*2 3*3*2*2*2 439*2
G: 241*11 13 181 113*23*5 1
G: 7*3*2 31*3 97*83
G: 109*2*2*2 47*2*2
G: 17*2 191*5 19*19*2*2 37*13*7*3 17*7*2*2
G: 5*2*2*2*2*2*2
G: 859 11*2 433*2*2*2
G: 1129*13 7*7*3 19*13*3
G: 5 5*5*2 6473 23*3
G: 5 5*5*2 6473
G: 241*11 13 181 113*23*5 1 5*2*2*2*2*2*2
G: 13
G: 43*3*2 47*2*2 5*2*2*2*2*2*2 109*2*2*2 97*83
G: 3*2*2 47*2*2
G: 5 5*5*2
G: 5 3*3*3*2 23*7*3 47*2*2 103*3*3*3 43*5 5*5*5 227*3 61*19*2*2 223*11 239*2
G: 11*2*2 11*5*5 349*2*2 13033 193*5
G: 43*7 5*2*2*2*2*2*2 11*3*3*2
G: 43*3*2 859 7*3*2
G: 43*3*2 7*3*2 97*83
G: 23*7*5 17*3*2
G: 5
G: 5*2*2*2*2*2*2 5*2*2*2*2*2*2
G: 5*2*2*2*2*2*2 859 137*3*2 97*83 241*11 47*2*2
G: 1 2
G: 5*5*3*3*2*2 11*5*3*3*2
N: 433*2*2*2 3463 43*13*5 47*41
N: 97*83
N: 239*2 263*17 41*37*2*2
N: 97*83 137*3*2 1117*7*2 859 433*2*2*2
N: 3203*3 43*17*11 67*19*3 79*31 823
N: 433*2*2*2 47*41
N: 1429*2*2
N: 97*83 137*3*2 1117*7*2 859
N: 109*2*2*2 97*83
N: 5*5*2*2*2 6779 47*23*3 313*3*3
N: 1181*2*2*2
N: 6481*2
N: 97*83 137*3*2 1117*7*2
N: 97*83 137*3*2
N: 241*11
N: 283*47 167*13 59*43*3 3299*2 47*13*2*2*2*2 1103*7*2 109*37 2141*3
N: 3889 163*5*2 491*7
N: 43*3*2 241*11 97*83
N: 137*3*2 97*83
N: 1 137*73
N: 5*5*5*3*2*2*2*2*2 2083*3*2
----
 
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Darin Stephenson
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Quote:
What's more, here's the list by factored gameid, in case that last wasn't geeky enough:


Wow, that's quite a list. I hope those were done by a script and not by hand...although I must confess compiling similar lists by hand in earlier games!
 
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Darin Stephenson
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By the way...
...for the last round or two, I've been in the mode of trying to give away as much information as possible in the counterexamples, as opposed to the intentional misdirection of the early rounds (nasty, tricksy Master -- all those double letterses...)

Anyway, I am ready to be rid of the goo. Aside from the general mess, it is starting to scare me. I think it is listening to me (as opposed to just looking at me, which is creepy enough by far). Or maybe I've just been thinking about Zendo for too long. Probably. Heh.
 
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Dave Peters
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Quote:
...for the last round or two, I've been in the mode of trying to give away as much information as possible in the counterexamples, as opposed to the intentional misdirection of the early rounds...


I believe. I could confess to the same modus operandi. Unfortunately, I'm not as perceptive as you are!
 
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Dave Peters
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I'd like to spend a camel.

A list has the Geek nature if more than half of the games on the list have a game id less than 1000.

 
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Dave Peters
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Powers:Coleridge:Milton: Faith...must be, if anything, a clear-eyed recognition of the patterns and tendencies, to be found in every piece of the world's fabric, which are the lineaments of God.
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Mondo
And if that doesn't work, here's my Mondo:

trash Concerto Grosso, Cosa Nostra, Corona
 
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Matthew Wills
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Quote:
I'd like to spend a camel.

A list has the Geek nature if more than half of the games on the list have a game id less than 1000.



Damn you Rynelf.
 
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Aaron Cinzori
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I like it
Quote:
I'd like to spend a camel.

A list has the Geek nature if more than half of the games on the list have a game id less than 1000.



I vote for rynelf's rule.

-Aaron
 
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I vote for rynelf's rule, too...
Quote:
A list has the Geek nature if more than half of the games on the list have a game id less than 1000.


That's it! Nice work. Congratulations!

I drop kick the goo from Michigan; it bounces somewhere in Utah, then lands in California from whence it came.

Some tips on care of the goo :
1) Do not eat.
2) It likes to be scratched just behind the ... uh ... eye.
3) Do not try to clean the goo off.
4) If you start hearing voices, get rid of it as soon as possible.
5) Have fun.

sauronninjasauron
 
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Trout
One of the best things about being Master is that I now have so many games to add to my want list. For example, I now know about Trout - The Most Realistic Fishing Game Ever. Isn't it false advertizing to call it "the most realistic fishing game ever," when apparently plays something like Monopoly?
 
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Quote:
...when apparently plays something like Monopoly?


...and you'll need to supply an 'it' in the appropriate place in order to make sense of that...

...NEED...MORE...COFFEE...
 
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Darin Stephenson
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So close...
By the way, I'll point out mjwills Round 3 camel guess:

Quote:
A list has the Geek Nature if all games in it have GameIDs with 3 or fewer digits.


This was really getting close. I thought things were going to end shortly after that. I suppose that the "more than half" thing made it harder than I thought.
 
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JEREMY WILHM
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Wow.
I kept think it had to be something with the Game ID as well, but the "more than half" part of it just kept eluding me.

Excellent job figuring it out, and excellent job to Kentucky Kid for hosting a good round. Maybe someday I'll figure one of these out, but I haven't been able to so far.
 
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Ken H.
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as opposed to the intentional misdirection of the early rounds (nasty, tricksy Master -- all those double letterses...)



I thought it was a red herring since it was so obvious in the early lists. But, I just couldn't get past it. Every time I looked at the lists, the double letters just jumped out, along with the first/last letters being the same.

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Or maybe I've just been thinking about Zendo for too long. Probably. Heh.


It's fun being the Master, but that's the downside. You can't really skip a day when you don't feel like looking at it.

Anyway, congrats to Rynelf (again), and good round Master K.K.



 
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