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Subject: No such thing as a bad genre? Well, maybe... rss

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Mark Britten
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From the genres you give:

Heavy Metal - Duality, Slipknot

Hip-Hop - Love The Way You Lie, Eminem + Rihanna.

Country - Wreck Of The Old '97, Johnny Cash

Electronica - Together In Electric Dreams, Phill Oakey / Giorgio Moroder

Boy Band - Supreme, Robbie Williams (Ok,it was as a solo artist, but yeah)

Prog - Jeff Wayne's War Of The Worlds (feel free to argue this genre)

Reggae - No Woman No Cry, Bob Marley

Blues - In The Pines, Leadbelly (also known as "Where did you sleep last night")

Jazz - Twentysomething, Jamie Cullum (Yes, the whole album)

Show Tunes - The Major General's Song, Pirates Of Penznace.

And to add genres:

Punk - Homecoming, Green Day

Pop - All The Things She Said, TATU.
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Nasty McHaggis
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Kudos for trying to find a silver lining in something that normally turns you off. Most folks never try.
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Lajos
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chiddler wrote:
..I have made an effort in recent years to try to find the best music in genres I don't usually listen to, as I reckon almost all styles have some worthwhile stuff. (...)

Such an attempt to find 'most worthwhile' or 'best' music in genres you don't know, and don't really appreciate is bent to result in a list of most mediocre and closest to mainstream (or closest to the genres you do like). Indeed, your list illustrates that nicely. If you seriously want to make a list of the 'best' in various genres (if there is something like 'best' when it comes to music or art in general), I'd suggest to develop an appreciation for and understanding of a genre first.
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John Earles
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chiddler wrote:
I have to admit I'm struggling to find any listenable or even intelligent Death Metal


You need a gentle introduction to death metal.

Try Opeth...



or Dark Tranquillity:

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Lajos
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chiddler wrote:
I disagree with your central assumption that mainstream = mediocre by the way, the best of everything (this extends far beyond music) tends to be well known, and only snobs think otherwise (IMO)

I doubt that 'best' tends to be well known, especially in less popular genres of any art form. By most (informed) standards the 'best' in any genre would be whatever applied the genre conventions in the most creative and original manner (and/or what created those genre conventions in the first place). That may be the most well known in some cases, but very often is not. And surely it often is not the most popular, or the easiest.
Most well known or most popular tends to be the cross-over between the genre conventions and mainstream conventions. That, however, is not the 'best' of any genre, but the (possibly unconscious) 'sell out' to mainstream, and is arguably on the fringes of the genre. Furthermore, such cases tend to be least original, exactly because of their compromise with mainstream conventions, and are therefore perhaps 'worst' of their genre more than 'best'.

Perhaps only 'snobs' think otherwise, but when I want to know what is the best in a genre, I'd prefer the opinion of someone well versed in that genre, someone you might consider a 'snob', or I'd consider becoming well versed in that genre myself.
If you apply your standards to the 'entertainment genre' of board games, Monopoly would be 'best'. Change to the subgenre of 'modern games' or something like that, and you would end up with Carcassone or Settlers as 'best'. Your game ratings are quite different. Hence, you must be a 'snob'. (Good for you! Now, please become a 'snob' about music too.)
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I second the recommendation for Opeth.
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Morgan Dontanville
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chiddler wrote:

In fact I'd suggest that the truly great, in all fields, actually help to DEFINE mainstream convention for the future. The Beatles made it conventional for bands to write their own material, Louis Armstrong made improvisation conventional, Beethoven changed the conventions of orchestral music, Frank Lloyd-Wright changed the conventions of architecture, Shakespeare changed the conventions of drama and Van Gogh forever changed the conventions of painting.

Of course a lot of popular stuff is crap, but so is the overwhelming majority of unpopular stuff, and just because your tastes are those of a minority is no evidence at all that they are any good.


Outside of completely disagreeing with your top assessments, what's the point of your list then?
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Thomas Eager
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goo OK, I'm game, although I could readily offer ten or more per category...the curse of the geek-musician, I suppose. But I digress...

Heavy Metal: Centuries of Sin--Probot

Hip-Hop: Take it Back--Wu Tang Clan

Country: El Paso--Marty Robbins

Electronica: In Dark Trees--Brian Eno

Boy Band: Ugh. But I'll go with One Bad Apple--Jackson 5

Prog: Discipline--King Crimson

Reggae: I'm a Rastaman--Uroy

Blues: St James Infirmary--Bobby "Blue" Bland

Jazz: Out of this World--John Coltrane

Show Tunes: Amsterdam--Jacques Brel is Alive and Well and Living In Paris

Punk: We Destroy the Family--FEAR

Pop: The Night Before--The Beatles goo


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Matthew Collier
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I love certain subgenres of metal but Death Metal has never been one I could get into. The closest I get is Melodic Death like Children of Bodom or Infinite Tales.

Without some melody or progressive elements I get bored pretty fast.







God I love Infinite Tales.

I also agree with Mainstream = generally mediocre. Something has to have that certain blandness to achieve mass appeal. I like to imagine that the best burger in the world comes from a small one off business in some city far away. McDonalds definitely doesnt make the best burgers, but they certainly sell a LOT. Vanilla is probably the biggest selling ice cream, but most people have some weird favourite like peanut butter and chocolate chunks or something. Ironically enough 'vanilla' is also a term used for something thats simple or bland... which I like to think proves my point

But really whats 'best' is different from person to person... probably
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Mark Britten
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Also:

Folk: Our Town, Kate Rusby:
 
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Andy Leighton
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chiddler wrote:
..I have made an effort in recent years to try to find the best music in genres I don't usually listen to, as I reckon almost all styles have some worthwhile stuff. I have to admit I'm struggling to find any listenable or even intelligent Death Metal, but heres a list of 10 genres and something from that genre that I really like - would love to see who can stretch themselves to choosing a track from each genre themselves -


No folk?

I see someone has beaten me to the punch so .

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Andy Leighton
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Jazz - no Sun Ra fans.
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I saw "Supper's Ready" on the top of this list and I just felt right.
 
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Morgan Dontanville
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Heavy Metal - "Brainstorm", Hawkwind


Hip-Hop - "Raise It Up", Ultramagnetic MC's


Country - "Fujiyama mama", Wanda Jackson


Electronica - "Don And Sherri", Matthew Dear


Boy Band - "I am not a Juvenile Deliquent", Frankie Lymon & The Teenagers


Prog - "Areknames", Franco Battiato


Reggae - "Enjoy Yourself", Prince Buster


Blues - "Pretty Thing", Bo Diddley


Jazz - "The Creator Has a Master Plan", Pharoah Sanders


Show Tunes - "Faust (Winslow)" from Phantom of the Paradise, Bill Finley/Paul Williams
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Xander Fulton
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Taerdin wrote:
I love certain subgenres of metal but Death Metal has never been one I could get into. The closest I get is Melodic Death like Children of Bodom or Infinite Tales.
...snip...

God I love Infinite Tales.


Something I've seen a lot of European metal bands doing - mixing the general angry sound of a male vocalist with more melodious female vocalist. Works really, REALLY well.

Epica, for example:





(Also: Simone Simons = RAWR! And you gotta give props to a metal band that brings along a major part of an orchestra when playing a studio! LOL)

I may be wrong, but I think Nightwish was the first band to really run with that idea.



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George Kinney
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I don't know why all these Scandanavian synth bands get lumped in the 'Death Metal' genre myself, the best place to start is with the band the genre is named for: Death

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Matthew Collier
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Gecko23 wrote:
Scandanavian synth bands


Wait... which bands?

Also I love Crystal Mountain, to the point where I learned it on my guitar... I would post a link but no one cares
 
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Kinda off-topic, but this reminded me of this so I thought I'd share it.
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sisteray wrote:
Heavy Metal - "Brainstorm", Hawkwind


A strange classification. Hawkwind are usually classified as space rock (which is more closely association with psych and prog).
 
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Lajos
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Friff14 wrote:

Kinda off-topic, but this reminded me of this so I thought I'd share it.

I'm assuming that the idea of the picture is to make improbable combinations, but...

Of these genres, Ambient metal, Death jazz, Instrumental Hiphop, Goth Pop, and probably a few more actually exist.

Some of the drone doom metal sub genre is sometimes considered 'ambient metal'.
'Death jazz' is a hybrid between either free jazz and experimental music and noise; or between more post-bob oriented jazz, extreme metal, ambient, and noise. These are different, but both are at times called 'death jazz'. The former is also called 'punk jazz', 'trash jazz', etc., although there are small differences between these labels; the latter borders on 'doom jazz' and 'dark jazz'.
'Instrumental hiphop' is hiphop without rap or any other vocals. Boom Bip is perhaps one of the more famous in the sub genre.
'Goth pop' is certainly a genre of music in Japan. If I remember her name correctly, Yosei Teikoku made one of the better albums in the genre ('Gothic Lolita Propaganda' was its title, I think).
Undoubtedely, 'Indie Klezmer' also exists, and I would be surprised if there is no 'Speed funk'.
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Morgan Dontanville
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andyl wrote:
sisteray wrote:
Heavy Metal - "Brainstorm", Hawkwind


A strange classification. Hawkwind are usually classified as space rock (which is more closely association with psych and prog).


Yeah, but this album has Lemmy on it.

EDIT: Stoner Rock is more or less metal (as shown by The Sword)
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Blorb Plorbst
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I can completely appreciate the musicianship and craft that goes into Metal -- especially contemporary Metal. But the genre simply doesn't seem to be expressing anything new. There's nothing in it that surprises me any more.

And I know that I'm generalizing and folks can post all kinds of examples of innovation but I don't care enough to take the time to go find it. At least back in the 80s they knew to make their songs short enough that you wouldn't have to suffer through the bad stuff.
 
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The problem with metal is that you are supposed to take it seriously, and all metal just makes me giggle cause it is so silly.
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chiddler wrote:
..I have made an effort in recent years to try to find the best music in genres I don't usually listen to, as I reckon almost all styles have some worthwhile stuff. I have to admit I'm struggling to find any listenable or even intelligent Death Metal, but heres a list of 10 genres and something from that genre that I really like - would love to see who can stretch themselves to choosing a track from each genre themselves -


Heavy Metal - "Heaven and Hell", Black Sabbath

Hip-Hop - "Renegade", Jay-Z and Eminem

Country - "The Devil Came Down to Georgia", Charlie Daniels Band

Electronica - "Oxygene", Jean-Michel Jarre

Boy Band - "Back For Good", Take That

Prog - "Supper's Ready", Genesis

Reggae - "Time", Easy Star All Stars

Blues - "Born Blind", Sonny Boy Williamson

Jazz - "So What", Miles Davis

Show Tunes - "Rent", Rent


I nominate this for the silliest post ever in Chit Chat. You should be proud. This is Chit Chit, the competition is pretty extreme. Nice work!
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pronoblem baalberith
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Lajos wrote:
Of these genres, Ambient metal, Death jazz, Instrumental Hiphop, Goth Pop, and probably a few more actually exist.


Yes, Lajos... they all intend to sound ironic but examples of each could be easily made - creatively, as the genres may not exist, but most of those combos do make sense.

Death Jazz is REAL! Well, maybe that is what we do. I might consider Bohren Der Club Of Gore near that description... I have heard them called "dark ambient jazz". From wiki: "unholy ambient mixture of slow jazz ballads, Black Sabbath doom and down tuned Autopsy sounds" (Autopsy = Death Metal).

Instrumental Hiphop? I have Anti-pop Consortium DJ Spooky albums that have maybe one or two tracks with lyrics, the rest instrumental. I think you'd find a good selection on the Thirsty Ear label where cross-over is key. There's a lot of jazz musicians doing hip hop and possibly a new genre that Matthew Shipp has termed "Nu Jazz".

Goth Pop? Hasn't goth become pop with the likes of Joy Division, Nick Cave, Cure, Sisters of Mercy, etc...?

My favorite is Bubblegum Blues. I never heard this before, but this nails down what I think of most blues today... anything sung in the style of blues that is not identified with poverty, depression, African American identity, etc... if you are rich, white and singing the blues you are Bubblegum.

60's Grunge? Well, this is retrospective not a genre mix... I don't really thing "grunge" was much of a genre as it was a scene - but how about Velvet Underground, Stooges and Neil Young?

Acid Classical? Hermann Nitsch? Terry Reilly?

Skate Folk? Would Folk Punk qualify?

etc, etc...
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