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Subject: Texas Holdem Tourney? rss

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Jeff Morales
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Just wondering, who did you contract to run this?

-jeff
 
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Randy Cox
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Contract? That's an interesting choice of words. I've seen similar tournaments appear at other social boardgame conventions, and you just have some person who is interested step forward to be the gamemaster. Not like you need any professionals to do it.
 
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James Cheevers
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Just tell me the buy-in, expected number of entrants and prize split. With a bit of luck it can pay for most of my trip. cool

James
 
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Dave Nadig
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I have to agree - while it takes a TINY bit more knowledge to effectively run a tournament, it's not rocket science, there's simple software/spreadsheets to help out, and it's not like there are a lot of screwy rules questions.

The largest expense is usually chips.
 
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James Cheevers
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The software I use when running tourney's can be found here :

http://www.geocities.com/thetournamentdirector/

It's pretty good.

And it's free

James
 
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Brett David Spain
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I see that comment and raise you $1.00...

What does everyone consider realistic stakes? Afterall, we are speaking of poor, poor, gameplayers. $20.00 buy in? $50.00 buy in?

All of our money goes towards games, afterall, doesn't it?
 
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James Cheevers
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Out of interest, are there any available card rooms/casino's nearby to the Con?

I'm kind of hoping that in the downtime I can find a decent cash game (anything up to $30/60).

After all, who needs sleep?

James
 
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CHAPEL
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Uh, I think you guys are under the assuption that there is going to be a cash buy-in and a cash payout. That is highly illegal in the state of Texas. Only legal poker games are within personal residence( Your home ). Nowhere in public is it legal. We have pub tourneyments in Texas, but those are ZERO "$0" buy-in's and prizes only. There is no gambling involved. Aldie & CO. may want to confirm what they were planning. Don't expect a cash tourney at the con.
 
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A Derk appears from the mists...
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No cash. Just for fun. Get a set number of chips and off you go. And a local friend of ours has volunteered to run the tourney...
 
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Mark McEvoy
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Watch out, the fact that there's a paid entry to the convention proper could be construed as making the poker tournament a paid-entry game.

I think you may *have* to allow non-conventioneers to join the poker tournament to avoid the illegality of having a paid-entry poker game.

-edit- Er, check this link:
http://www.theeagle.com/region/localregional/010905gambling....


It look like it's illegal to have prizes for other convention games, too (except maybe Go and Chess - even then, not sure if the 'random' means of determining first-player constitutes a 'gambling device')

Quote:
Under the Texas Penal Code, a person commits an offense if he or she plays and bets for money or anything of value at any game played in public with cards, dice, balls or other gambling device.

The things of value can include any benefit, such as money or prizes.
 
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Jeff Morales
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Im not so sure if it is illegal in this case. I am a dealer for a casino party company here in dallas and I deal dozens of parties a year that give out prizes to the top players.

BGG.con is not "in public" but rather a private gathering.

Under the Texas Penal Code, a poker or card tournament can be held in a private place such as a home or apartment (in this case a privately rented convention room) only so long as no person receives economic benefit other than personal winnings.

I imagine this is a moote point if there is no money involved to begin with. However, if there was money involved, then you should be ok if no one profits from it other than the winner.

jeff
 
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CHAPEL
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ikirumata wrote:


Under the Texas Penal Code, a poker or card tournament can be held in a private place such as a home or apartment (in this case a privately rented convention room) only so long as no person receives economic benefit other than personal winnings.
jeff



Penal code 47.01 paragraph

(8) "Private place" means a place to which the public does not have access, and excludes, among other places, streets, highways, restaurants, taverns, nightclubs, schools, hospitals, and the common areas of apartment houses, hotels, motels, office buildings, transportation facilities, and shops.

So no privately rented room does not count as a "Private place".

 
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Gary Heidenreich
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MWChapel wrote:
ikirumata wrote:


Under the Texas Penal Code, a poker or card tournament can be held in a private place such as a home or apartment (in this case a privately rented convention room) only so long as no person receives economic benefit other than personal winnings.
jeff



Penal code 47.01 paragraph

(8) "Private place" means a place to which the public does not have access, and excludes, among other places, streets, highways, restaurants, taverns, nightclubs, schools, hospitals, and the common areas of apartment houses, hotels, motels, office buildings, transportation facilities, and shops.

So no privately rented room does not count as a "Private place".



Actually, in reading the above, it's restricted to the common areas of hotels and motels. A conference room that has restricted entry (i.e., only paid BGG folk) is private. At least that is how I would read it.
 
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CHAPEL
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bop517 wrote:


Actually, in reading the above, it's restricted to the common areas of hotels and motels. A conference room that has restricted entry (i.e., only paid BGG folk) is private. At least that is how I would read it.


But entry is open to the public. I couldn't charge a entry fee to the public to a so called private party, and rent a room, then call it "private affair".

So it comes down to this:

1.Hiding behind the guise of legal interpretation of the penal code + 2. Texas, a state that has Zero tolerance to gambling + 3. Recent outbreak of raids across the state to these so called legal private poker tourneys = Not a good enough reason to ruin the whole BGG Con to risk it.

 
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Jeff Morales
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MWChapel wrote:
bop517 wrote:


Actually, in reading the above, it's restricted to the common areas of hotels and motels. A conference room that has restricted entry (i.e., only paid BGG folk) is private. At least that is how I would read it.


But entry is open to the public. I couldn't charge a entry fee to the public to a so called private party, and rent a room, then call it "private affair".

So it comes down to this:

1.Hiding behind the guise of legal interpretation of the penal code + 2. Texas, a state that has Zero tolerance to gambling + 3. Recent outbreak of raids across the state to these so called legal private poker tourneys = Not a good enough reason to ruin the whole BGG Con to risk it.




Actually, entry is not open to the public. Only registered people may enter the events. The registration is open to the public.

From what I have heard from people who are familiar with Texas gambling law (i.e. people I know that deal texas holdem for private parties), the "zero tolerance" policy enforcement varies greatly from city to city.

Simple fix, just dont play for money.

-jeff
 
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Scott Alden
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Hmmm... it would have been fun to play for money. Kind of changes the way the game is played. But I am working on a monster prize package for this tourney, so the winner(s) should still be happy.
 
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Scott Alden
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I'll look into the possiblity of actually doing a money game with the hotel to see if it's legal... believe me we don't want to risk the shutting down of the thing over something like this.
 
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Mark McEvoy
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Aldie wrote:
Hmmm... it would have been fun to play for money. Kind of changes the way the game is played. But I am working on a monster prize package for this tourney, so the winner(s) should still be happy.


From what I read, having a prize for the winner could be just as illegal as a cash game. Hell, from the wording of the law, giving a prize for successful play at just about any game with any chance-based elements is illegal. A prize for the winner of a Settlers tournament? By the letter of the law, illegal.
 
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James Cheevers
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If it's a risk then just set up a game for fun. It's not worth risking the con for.

You could always set up a non value prize. Something like a picture of the eventual winner on the front page to greet visitors with a message from Aldie & Derk stating that :

"This is James Cheevers, undisputed BGG Poker king. All bow down to his superior card playing skills".

If a cash game is out of the question can anyone tell me if there are any legalized card playing establishments in the area?

Thanks

James
 
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CHAPEL
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Quote:

If a cash game is out of the question can anyone tell me if there are any legalized card playing establishments in the area?

Thanks

James


The closest facility is "Bossier City, LA", which is about 178 miles from dallas. Pretty much where Texas goes to gamble, save the Vegas hop.
 
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Ben Jarvis
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I know...

If I win at a Magic tournament I become a criminal!

Sheesh.

Ironic that it's illegal to play Texas-Hold-Em' in Texas.

I love my state's inconsistencys...
 
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Jeff Morales
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According to the Penal Code:

(b) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:

(1) the actor engaged in gambling in a private place;

(2) no person received any economic benefit other than personal winnings; and

(3) except for the advantage of skill or luck, the risks of losing and the chances of winning were the same for all participants.


So...

1. If the game occurred outside of the public areas of the hotel (by definition used by the same document), such as a privately rented conference room

2. If no one wins anything other than personal winnings (i.e. no one gets paid to deal, no one gets money for having the game available, and the only prizes given are for personally playing the game).

3. If no one has any better chance at winning other than having better skill or luck

BGG.con shouldnt have any problems with a non-cash prize game, unless there are local laws that apply...



 
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Mark McEvoy
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ikirumata wrote:
no one gets money for having the game available


So doesn't this get clobbered by the fact that this is a paid-attendance-only convention? Any lawyer could easily argue that, by having a gate admission cost to be able to get into the private room wherein the game is played, then it is effectively a means of the conventionrunners recieving economic benefit from those who pay to play this gambling game.

For a court to rule any other way would open a huge legal can of worms.
 
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