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The Great Fire of London 1666» Forums » General

Subject: How many fire tokens should be in the game? rss

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M. S.
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The rule is listing "100 fire tokens"

My copy of the game is having 65 fire tokens in it....what`s correct?!
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Richard Morris
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Braz wrote:
The rule is listing "100 fire tokens"

My copy of the game is having 65 fire tokens in it....what`s correct?!


As someone who preordered it, and has not yet seen his copy, you may understand that:

a) I am unable to answer
b) I couldn't give a ****

But I would complain to the publisher if I were you.
 
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PJ Wilhelm
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The prototype included 100 cones indeed.
My box also includes 65 cones.
 
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Timo Schneider
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So it's not just mine ...
 
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Jeff Thornsen
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There was a sign posted at the booth in Essen saying that it is a misprint in the rules and you are supposed to only get 65 (I think... some number less than 100)
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Simon Schwanhäußer
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saw it too. was 65.
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Mike Hutton
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I can confirm there are officially supposed to be 65 fire tokens in the game, and the rulebook is wrong. Markus has tried to make it clear on the stand that the rulebook has a misprint, and has said that the rulebook will be corrected after Essen.

Apparently 100 was a starting point put in the rules before they had worked out exactly how many they needed, and somehow the rulebook was not updated when they decided on 65.

Mike.
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Richard Rutten
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Faranim wrote:
There was a sign posted at the booth in Essen saying that it is a misprint in the rules and you are supposed to only get 65 (I think... some number less than 100)

Ah, so they followed my suggestion to put up the sign after I went back on Friday to ask about this. thumbsup
 
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Richard Morris
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Mike Hutton wrote:
I can confirm there are officially supposed to be 65 fire tokens in the game, and the rulebook is wrong. Markus has tried to make it clear on the stand that the rulebook has a misprint, and has said that the rulebook will be corrected after Essen.

Apparently 100 was a starting point put in the rules before they had worked out exactly how many they needed, and somehow the rulebook was not updated when they decided on 65.

Mike.


... which does not make it a misprint ...
 
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Andreas Resch
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Hello!

I made the rulebook based on the rules of Richard Denning who always had assumed 100 cones (to be on the very safe side) ever since he created his prototype. On the production side the number was reduced to 65 but the change was overlooked in the rulebook.
After Essen there will be an update to the rulebooks which will also include this correction - at least the web versions will then be correct.

Cheers,
Andreas
 
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Richard Denning
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There are a couple of minor bloops in the rules that need correcting. NIce thing about printing rules in house is they can be immediately updated.

Yes 65 is supplied and proved adequqte at Essen in over 100 games apart from twice. That MIGHT suggest we need 70 or 75 but not 100 and we will reflect on this. If you run out just add 1 cones each back to the stock. That willbe added to the rules.
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Paul Bradley
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Copy finally arrived down under - minor crease in box lid.

Like Richard mine is from Prime Games, with the Games Cellar address. Stamped from Chris Welbourne on the back.

Interestingly, the rulebook states there are 65 red fire cones - seems I got an updated one.

Initially thought that I had been diddled with the tokens - until I found the stickers underneath the board. blush

Although, I do have 7 trained band cones - sorry if you have 5.
 
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Richard Morris
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batcut wrote:
Copy finally arrived down under - minor crease in box lid.

Like Richard mine is from Prime Games, with the Games Cellar address. Stamped from Chris Welbourne on the back.

Interestingly, the rulebook states there are 65 red fire cones - seems I got an updated one.

Initially thought that I had been diddled with the tokens - until I found the stickers underneath the board. blush

Although, I do have 7 trained band cones - sorry if you have 5.


Interesting - documentary proof you were diddled, time wise, on the pre order. Presumably it is 'too much like hard work' to sort out the pictures so the rules and cards match the colours of the houses.

My labels were pretty badly offcut - at a stage that I would have rejected if I was printing them out for a PnP game.

But your 7th trained band wasn't mine. After a total of a whole single game, I wonder if 6 of those is the 'right' number. Presumably various numbers were tried in playtesting, but it seems likely to be easy to tie them down on capped fires. And with only 4 actions it is hard to get your pawn into a space, put the fire out to free a trained band, and then move it where you want/need it. So I fear permanent paralysis : no one will want to free a trained band up to then find someone else gets to deploy it. Perhaps players with more games under their belt could comment on whether the 1 VP for putting the fire out is enough incentive?
 
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H-B-G
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AnnuverScotinExile wrote:

But your 7th trained band wasn't mine. After a total of a whole single game, I wonder if 6 of those is the 'right' number. Presumably various numbers were tried in playtesting, but it seems likely to be easy to tie them down on capped fires. And with only 4 actions it is hard to get your pawn into a space, put the fire out to free a trained band, and then move it where you want/need it. So I fear permanent paralysis : no one will want to free a trained band up to then find someone else gets to deploy it. Perhaps players with more games under their belt could comment on whether the 1 VP for putting the fire out is enough incentive?


I never saw the problem you describe in testing or when demoing to various groups, the original rule for the number of trained bands was that there were 2 per player, so even with only 4 players you were up to 8. We found that this was too many as the fire was much too easily contained, even with 6 I sometimes wonder if that is too many.

As for the 1 VP, if everyone else is refusing to put out fires then a single player opting to put out the fire for 1 VP (per cone) plus 2 for the Hero of London is going to end up getting a substantial (quite possibly decisive) advantage by the end of the game, especially as in the situation you describe there will probably be a lot more destruction (and hence point loss) due to the inaction of the other players.
 
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Richard Morris
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DaveD wrote:
AnnuverScotinExile wrote:

But your 7th trained band wasn't mine. After a total of a whole single game, I wonder if 6 of those is the 'right' number. Presumably various numbers were tried in playtesting, but it seems likely to be easy to tie them down on capped fires. And with only 4 actions it is hard to get your pawn into a space, put the fire out to free a trained band, and then move it where you want/need it. So I fear permanent paralysis : no one will want to free a trained band up to then find someone else gets to deploy it. Perhaps players with more games under their belt could comment on whether the 1 VP for putting the fire out is enough incentive?


I never saw the problem you describe in testing or when demoing to various groups, the original rule for the number of trained bands was that there were 2 per player, so even with only 4 players you were up to 8. We found that this was too many as the fire was much too easily contained, even with 6 I sometimes wonder if that is too many.

As for the 1 VP, if everyone else is refusing to put out fires then a single player opting to put out the fire for 1 VP (per cone) plus 2 for the Hero of London is going to end up getting a substantial (quite possibly decisive) advantage by the end of the game, especially as in the situation you describe there will probably be a lot more destruction (and hence point loss) due to the inaction of the other players.


Thanks. I wasn't describing a problem - just speculating. After one game I realise that I do not have enough data to work on, especially when we played it wrong blush (we forgot that trained bands must stop and fight a fire in a space that they move through). But I am encouraged by what you say.
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Richard Denning
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It is a perfectly valid strategy to attempt to pin black cones. But of course since you can select WHICH fire to move you can always reduce the number of fires in a space.

Fire priority will usually prevent them being replaced (save by the Fire Intensify action and that is only 3 cones and only 4 to 6 times in a game)

It might take a turn or two but you can reduce a fire to manageable proportions. Then you can mop up some points.

I will often look for a situation where two fire cones are in a space with 1 black cone in, move the spare cone out in my fire move and THEN grab the VP by putting the fire out that some fool has provided me with. Combine that with a double fire move token and you could have say 4 fire cones, 2 black cones, move the 2 fires out and nab the 2 VP.

Players tend to think one phase at a time and not collectively.
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Jonathan Warren
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Let me get this straight in my mind:

A district has 1 contained fire (trained band on top). If the fire priority movement allows, a new fire can enter the district but must not pass through that district. The district now contains 1 contained fire and 1 fire. At this point the houses in the district burn down (as there are no more trained bands in the area). Let's assume that the district has 2 houses - an extra cone is now added to the district. The district now contains 1 contained fire and 2 fires. On a subsequent turn the normal fire in this district can move from the district and into another district (as long a fire movement priority allows). After this, on another turn, the remaining fire (not the contained fire) can also move from the district, thus leaving the contained fire in the district.

Correct?
 
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H-B-G
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JoffW wrote:
Let me get this straight in my mind:

A district has 1 contained fire (trained band on top). If the fire priority movement allows, a new fire can enter the district but must not pass through that district. The district now contains 1 contained fire and 1 fire. At this point the houses in the district burn down (as there are no more trained bands in the area). Let's assume that the district has 2 houses - an extra cone is now added to the district.


No, you add cones to make the total fires up to the number of houses, this district already has 2 fires (equal to the number of houses) so no further cones are added.

Quote:
The district now contains 1 contained fire and 2 fires. On a subsequent turn the normal fire in this district can move from the district and into another district (as long a fire movement priority allows). After this, on another turn, the remaining fire (not the contained fire) can also move from the district, thus leaving the contained fire in the district.


You have the right idea, but the district only has 1 contained fire and 1 uncontained, so only 1 fire move is required to move the uncontained fire from the district.
 
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Jonathan Warren
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DaveD wrote:
No, you add cones to make the total fires up to the number of houses, this district already has 2 fires (equal to the number of houses) so no further cones are added.

Got it! Thanks.

Edit: I have played the game by simply 'ignoring' that a contained fire is in a district for the purposes of adding the extra cones. Now I see that a contained fire also counts as one of the fires in the district.
 
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Peter Laubender
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My copy which I bought at SPIEL17 has only 60 fire cones.
 
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