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1960: The Making of the President» Forums » Rules

Subject: Who is dealt first? rss

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Michael D'Amico
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I am setting up the board for a quick solo play to learn the rules/flow of the game.

I've read the rules twice and, of course, might have missed it, but don't see if there is an order to who is dealt the first card during the initiative phase.

In Twilight Struggle it is always the USSR who is dealt first.

Who is dealt the first card in 1960? If there is no specific designation (which would seem odd) then I figured we'd let whomever won the initiative check decide which "pile" he/she wants.

Thanks!
 
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James Megee
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MichaelBD wrote:
I am setting up the board for a quick solo play to learn the rules/flow of the game.

I've read the rules twice and, of course, might have missed it, but don't see if there is an order to who is dealt the first card during the initiative phase.

In Twilight Struggle it is always the USSR who is dealt first.

Who is dealt the first card in 1960? If there is no specific designation (which would seem odd) then I figured we'd let whomever won the initiative check decide which "pile" he/she wants.

Thanks!


The rules don't say "Who" gets the first card. The rules have you deal the cards first, and then do the initiative draw.

On Page 6. they say:

Game Rules wrote:
1) New cards: Each player is dealt a new hand of cards.


However, Personally, I don't think it really matters "who" gets the first card. BUT... I DO like your idea of letting the person that won the Initiative get the first card dealt to him.

Jim
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Michael D'Amico
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Wow that was quick! Thanks for the reply.

It does seem kind of odd to me that it's not part of the rules.
 
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JimM wrote:
MichaelBD wrote:
I am setting up the board for a quick solo play to learn the rules/flow of the game.

I've read the rules twice and, of course, might have missed it, but don't see if there is an order to who is dealt the first card during the initiative phase.

In Twilight Struggle it is always the USSR who is dealt first.

Who is dealt the first card in 1960? If there is no specific designation (which would seem odd) then I figured we'd let whomever won the initiative check decide which "pile" he/she wants.

Thanks!


The rules don't say "Who" gets the first card. The rules have you deal the cards first, and then do the initiative draw.

On Page 6. they say:

Game Rules wrote:
1) New cards: Each player is dealt a new hand of cards.


However, Personally, I don't think it really matters "who" gets the first card. BUT... I DO like your idea of letting the person that won the Initiative get the first card dealt to him.

Jim


Yeah as long as you're consistent I don't see a problem with this.

-DK
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James Megee
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When dealing cards for "any" game, we always deal the first card to the person who is playing... well... 1st.

But, I wonder what the "odds" are? 52:1? For example, in a regular deck of poker cards, the chances of getting the ACE of Hearts as the first dealt card is the same chance as that same ACE of Hearts as being the very last card in the deck.

Jim
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Michael D'Amico
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JimM wrote:
When dealing cards for "any" game, we always deal the first card to the person who is playing... well... 1st.

But, I wonder what the "odds" are? 52:1? For example, in a regular deck of poker cards, the chances of getting the ACE of Hearts as the first dealt card is the same chance as that same ACE of Hearts as being the very last card in the deck.

Jim


I think the confusion for me is, according to the rules, you deal first and then determine initative. So it's tough to deal to the first player when you don't know who it is yet. laugh
 
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James Megee
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MichaelBD wrote:


I think the confusion for me is, according to the rules, you deal first and then determine initative. So it's tough to deal to the first player when you don't know who it is yet. laugh


True, but like you said earlier... you could do the Initiative Check to determine who gets to choose the starting player for the turn, first. Then deal the cards to the player going first.

Jim

PS: (I like this idea!)
 
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Michael D'Amico
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JimM wrote:
MichaelBD wrote:


I think the confusion for me is, according to the rules, you deal first and then determine initative. So it's tough to deal to the first player when you don't know who it is yet. laugh


True, but like you said earlier... you could do the Initiative Check to determine who gets to choose the starting player for the turn, first. Then deal the cards to the player going first.

Jim

PS: (I like this idea!)
That will be my plan moving forward.

I'm liking the flow so far and I'm looking forward to a first "actual" play.
 
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Lawrence Hung
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Wouldn't it be natural and courteous to deal your opponent a card first?
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Michael D'Amico
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Lawrence Hung wrote:
Wouldn't it be natural and courteous to deal your opponent a card first?
I guess it depends on who's dealing?

I can't think of another game off the top of my head that doesn't tell you who goes first or how to determine who goes first.
 
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Aaron Cappocchi
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MichaelBD wrote:
Lawrence Hung wrote:
Wouldn't it be natural and courteous to deal your opponent a card first?
I guess it depends on who's dealing?

I can't think of another game off the top of my head that doesn't tell you who goes first or how to determine who goes first.


Yes, but most game games do not have rules for who to deal to first. This game has very specific rules on how to choose who goes first - being dealt to first is not the same as going first.

Twilight Struggle has specific rules for who to deal first to because it has a game-specific deck, which progresses through three eras.

In most other games, including this one, it does not matter who gets dealt to first. Each card is the same as any other until you look at it.
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Tim Gilberg
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JimM wrote:

True, but like you said earlier... you could do the Initiative Check to determine who gets to choose the starting player for the turn, first. Then deal the cards to the player going first.


Nope. You generally decide who will go first after seeing your cards. Making the decision blind makes it quite pointless.

agentzen wrote:

In most other games, including this one, it does not matter who gets dealt to first. Each card is the same as any other until you look at it.


Almost correct. It can matter when cards are being dealt after a reshuffle. Who gets the last card of the initial draw deck and who gets the first from the reshuffled draw deck if they don't divide equally?
 
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James Megee
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Gilby wrote:
JimM wrote:

True, but like you said earlier... you could do the Initiative Check to determine who gets to choose the starting player for the turn, first. Then deal the cards to the player going first.


Nope. You generally decide who will go first after seeing your cards. Making the decision blind makes it quite pointless.


Oh... very good point! I didn't think of it that way.
 
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Michael D'Amico
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JimM wrote:
Gilby wrote:
JimM wrote:

True, but like you said earlier... you could do the Initiative Check to determine who gets to choose the starting player for the turn, first. Then deal the cards to the player going first.


Nope. You generally decide who will go first after seeing your cards. Making the decision blind makes it quite pointless.


Oh... very good point! I didn't think of it that way.


Here is how I plan to play it:

At the beginning of each turn I'll deal out two piles of cards (6 or 7 depending on the turn). We'll do the initiative check. Winner picks a pile. Both players look at their cards and then the player with initiative determines who will go first.
 
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Michael D'Amico
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agentzen wrote:
MichaelBD wrote:
Lawrence Hung wrote:
Wouldn't it be natural and courteous to deal your opponent a card first?
I guess it depends on who's dealing?

I can't think of another game off the top of my head that doesn't tell you who goes first or how to determine who goes first.


Yes, but most game games do not have rules for who to deal to first. This game has very specific rules on how to choose who goes first - being dealt to first is not the same as going first.

Twilight Struggle has specific rules for who to deal first to because it has a game-specific deck, which progresses through three eras.

In most other games, including this one, it does not matter who gets dealt to first. Each card is the same as any other until you look at it.


I personally don't think the type of deck is relevant. Washington's War uses a single common deck like 1960 and the rules state the Americans are always dealt first. In games like Memoir 44 each scenario has a starting player, and even though I don't believe it is clearly stated how cards should be dealt in M44, we have always played that the person with initiative is dealt first.

Most of the games I own either state who goes first, provides some convention on how to determine who goes first, or states something to the effect, "decide who goes first."

I assumed, like in Twilight Struggle, that there would be some natural turn order or specific convention to follow. I don't think it's really a big deal. I was just more curious that I missed something in the rules, though I do think this has turned into an interesting conversation.
 
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Tim Gilberg
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MichaelBD wrote:

I assumed, like in Twilight Struggle, that there would be some natural turn order or specific convention to follow. I don't think it's really a big deal. I was just more curious that I missed something in the rules, though I do think this has turned into an interesting conversation.


Well, I've just gone with Nixon-first when I play. I don't think it really matters, even on the off-chance of a reshuffle, but it's best to just set it one way to start the game and stick with it.
 
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Every facedown card is the same as every other facedown card, barring a reshuffle in the middle of dealing. There is no rational reason to care who gets the first card.
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funkula wrote:
Every facedown card is the same as every other facedown card, barring a reshuffle in the middle of dealing.


If you'd read the thread, you'd realize that this is exactly the one possible issue.
 
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Michael D'Amico
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I had my first official play the other day. It went well. We are two Twilight Struggle veterans so we had some experience to work with.

I stuck with my "player with initiative chooses his stack" and it added a nice little decision to the mix. I felt like, as Kennedy, I was having better luck with the second stack and would choose it when I had initiative, while my opponent would choose it to try and take it away.
 
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Jukka-Pekka Tuominen
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When I play we don't really deal cards in this game. We just take the amount of cards that are needed from the deck.
 
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