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The Great Fire of London 1666» Forums » Rules

Subject: Running out of fire cones rss

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Gert Keijer
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What are you supossed to do if you run out of fire cones in the Fire Intensify round?
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H-B-G
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Richard Denning has indicated elsewhere that in this case, each player should return a firecone to stock and this will be added to future printings of the rules.

Running out of cones shouldn't happen often however, note that when you intensify the fire only 3 cones are added to the board, not 3 cones to each burning district.

 
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David Larkin
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Well the rules aren't very clear about that. We took

"Three additional fire cones are added to any district or districts excluding Pudding Lane with a non contained fire in it, providing the total number of cones in the district(s) does not exceed the original
number of houses in the district) plus 2. For example a size 3 district may contain up to 5 cones. Guild Hall could contain up to 6 cones. If a player cannot place all three cones, he places as many as he can and discards the rest."

to mean that up to 3 cones are added to each district!
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H-B-G
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Yes, this is the second thread on this issue and stepping back and looking at it I can see where the confusion can come in.

I know Richard has posted elsewhere that there are a couple of changes to be made to the rules, so I've GM'd him pointing this out (although I'm sure he'll see the threads anyway).
 
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Gert Keijer
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Okay, we added extra cones to every district with uncontained fire. That explaines why we ran out!!!

Thanx
 
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Richard Denning
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Sutton Coldfield
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NO
ALL does not equal ANY

If we had said ALL or EACH then you would be right. We said any and said place 3 .

You choose any district (s) and add the 3 cones.
So maybe 1 to THREE districts or 2 to ONE and 1 to anotheor.
or 3 to ONE

Total of three but you can choose nay district with uncontained fire in providing the total after = NUmber of house symbols +2

The rule says ANY . So you can look at all the districts on fire abd select where you will put the THREE (only 3 total) on.
 
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Richard Denning
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Appologies for typos on this thread on a ropey connection from a cafe in Koln. (Back home at weekend)
 
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Gert Keijer
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Thanx for the answer. It's a great game.
And enjoy the Kölsch
 
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Eric Hymowitz
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rdenning wrote:
NO
ALL does not equal ANY

If we had said ALL or EACH then you would be right. We said any and said place 3 .


I humbly disagree with your understanding of the definition of "any".

Take this sentence (courtesy of m-w.com)
"Any person who comes in the store today is eligible for the discount."

Does that mean I get to pick only one person out of all of those who come in to the store? No. Any refers to all of them individually.

It is reasonable to read the sentence
Quote:
Three additional fire cones are added to any district or districts with a non contained fire in it

and apply it to each of them.
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Chakroun Karim
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hymie wrote:
rdenning wrote:
NO
ALL does not equal ANY

If we had said ALL or EACH then you would be right. We said any and said place 3 .


I humbly disagree with your understanding of the definition of "any".

Take this sentence (courtesy of m-w.com)
"Any person who comes in the store today is eligible for the discount."

Does that mean I get to pick only one person out of all of those who come in to the store? No. Any refers to all of them individually.

It is reasonable to read the sentence
Quote:
Three additional fire cones are added to any district or districts with a non contained fire in it

and apply it to each of them.


I do think the wording is *slightly* confusing, but the rest of the sentence clears it up; also, your comparison doesn't work.
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David Larkin
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It is not a question of whether the rules are legalistically correct but whether they are unambiguous, cover all eventualities and people reading them can easily understand them.

There is another situation where I find the rules unclear. I tried to work out what should happen when we were playing the game but couldn't. Fortunately the situation didn't arise during our game but even without out the time pressure of trying to interpret the rules during a game I am still not sure about the following situation

Quote:
Fire moving into a new district
If there is a trained band cone in the district not currently fighting fire i.e. it is not on top of a fire
cone - then immediately place the trained band cone on top of the new incoming fire cone. The fire
has not yet burnt the houses down and the brave soldiers are holding it back.


Quote:
Let’s say that the fire moved into Guild Hall. This is a size 4 district as shown by the fact it has 4 houses.
In addition to the fire that moved in 3 more fire cones from the stock will be added so that 4 fire cones are
present.
If the fire is still contained after the new fire cone moves in then you do not remove the houses

The first sentence says one trained band will stop a fire spreading into a new area, the second that the fire is only contained if there is a trained band for each house in the district.
The first sentence also implies that additional fire cards can be used to add more fire cones until the fire cones exceed the trained bands when the district burns down, in which case do you additional fire cones for the houses burnt down?

Also I think the rules should also make it explicitly clear that if an isolated fire (from Pudding Lane) has no regions with more than one fire cone in, then that fire can't expand.

 
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H-B-G
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Zark wrote:
It is not a question of whether the rules are legalistically correct but whether they are unambiguous, cover all eventualities and people reading them can easily understand them.

There is another situation where I find the rules unclear. I tried to work out what should happen when we were playing the game but couldn't. Fortunately the situation didn't arise during our game but even without out the time pressure of trying to interpret the rules during a game I am still not sure about the following situation

Quote:
Fire moving into a new district
If there is a trained band cone in the district not currently fighting fire i.e. it is not on top of a fire
cone - then immediately place the trained band cone on top of the new incoming fire cone. The fire
has not yet burnt the houses down and the brave soldiers are holding it back.


Quote:
Let’s say that the fire moved into Guild Hall. This is a size 4 district as shown by the fact it has 4 houses.
In addition to the fire that moved in 3 more fire cones from the stock will be added so that 4 fire cones are
present.
If the fire is still contained after the new fire cone moves in then you do not remove the houses

The first sentence says one trained band will stop a fire spreading into a new area, the second that the fire is only contained if there is a trained band for each house in the district.
The first sentence also implies that additional fire cards can be used to add more fire cones until the fire cones exceed the trained bands when the district burns down, in which case do you additional fire cones for the houses burnt down?



The rule is 1 fire marker moves in.

If there is at least one free trained band, then it is placed over the new fire that has just moved in and you take no further action.

If there is no free trained band, then the fire is not contained and you follow the rest of the instructions in the section "Fire Damage". This will mean all the houses are destroyed (if there are any), in addition you add fire cones to make the total in the district up to the number of original houses (in the Guild Hall example you increase the cones to 4.

The last line just reinforces that if the number of trained bands equals or exceeds the number of fire cones, after the new one moves in, then you take no further action.

Quote:
Also I think the rules should also make it explicitly clear that if an isolated fire (from Pudding Lane) has no regions with more than one fire cone in, then that fire can't expand.



I suppose this could be included, but it is implicit in the fact that you can't spread the fire from any district with only 1 fire cone.
 
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David Larkin
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Still trying to get my head around the rules!

Quote:
If the number of trained band cones in a district equals or exceeds the number of fire cones then that fire is contained and fire cannot spread from or through that district. But new fires may move into the district which will mean the fire is no longer contained.


If there is a contained fire another fire cone can be moved in with a fire card?

Presumable the situation can then occur where a district contains 2 houses and 3 (or more) contained fires. If a further fire cone is added which can't be contained the houses are removed but presumably no additional fire cones are added from stock?

Also if there are 2 contained fires and one uncontained fire in a district, the uncontained fire cone could be used to spread the fire to a new district and the existing fire would be then contained?

 
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H-B-G
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Zark wrote:
Still trying to get my head around the rules!

Quote:
If the number of trained band cones in a district equals or exceeds the number of fire cones then that fire is contained and fire cannot spread from or through that district. But new fires may move into the district which will mean the fire is no longer contained.


If there is a contained fire another fire cone can be moved in with a fire card?


Yes this can happen but bear in mind the movement priority, the fire would have to go to an area with houses and no trained bands in preference if possible.

Also, while the fire is contained it is quite likely that others will be taking actions to put the fire out, grabbing the VPs and freeing up the trained bands.

Quote:
Presumable the situation can then occur where a district contains 2 houses and 3 (or more) contained fires. If a further fire cone is added which can't be contained the houses are removed but presumably no additional fire cones are added from stock?


Correct

Quote:
Also if there are 2 contained fires and one uncontained fire in a district, the uncontained fire cone could be used to spread the fire to a new district and the existing fire would be then contained?



Yes, the houses would already have burnt down of course, but this would allow people to put the fire out in the original area.
 
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David Larkin
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Thanks for taking the time to explain. I think I have it sorted now

Well probably until I play again
 
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