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Subject: Kasparov Retires from Pro Chess rss

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Michael D
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Garry Kasparov, the world chess champion for some 20 years now has retired from professional chess as of today. wow I guess chess will have to find a new "face" now. Actually, I'm Kasparov will remain a prominent figure in chess and, frankly, I'm sure his opponents are glad he's retiring.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050311/ap_on_r...
 
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Burke Glover
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Also, fans of good sportsmanship are glad he's retiring.

nuclear
 
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Michael Kandrac
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Kasparov has been good for chess, and he spent an incredibly long time at the top of the chess world. His most memorable achievement would be his titanic struggle in defeating Anatoly Karpov, the defending world champion that FIDE crowned as Bobby Fischer's successor. Unfortunately, he will probably be remembered as the first grandmaster to lose a match against a computer, IBM's Big Blue.

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Brad Miller
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Haha! My nemesis has left!

Now's the chance for me to take what is rightfully mine!!!!
 
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Alex Rockwell
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Windopaene wrote:
Haha! My nemesis has left!

Now's the chance for me to take what is rightfully mine!!!!


lol!!!!!!!!
 
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Michael R
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Has anyone seen the documentary "Game Over" in which severval chess experts including Kasparov himself talk about how they think IBM cheated and actually hired a grandmaster (Karpov's name is mentioned) to play Kasparov? It is very convincing. It was shown in the UK on BBC2 and BBC4 as part of a short Storyville season on computers and games though as with other Storyville documentaries it would have been independently made so was probably shown elsewhere as well.
 
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Nelson Lamoureux
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Well, I guess Kramnik will be handled the world champion title per default. Although, from what I understand of this whole championship controversy, it's not clear if there will be a real champion anytime soon. It's actually one of the reasons Kasparov invoked to explain his retirement. He will be remembered alongside the greatest chess players of all time if only because he is still the no 1 ranked player with a rating flirting with the 2900!
 
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Nelson Lamoureux
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Citadel wrote:
Has anyone seen the documentary "Game Over" in which severval chess experts including Kasparov himself talk about how they think IBM cheated and actually hired a grandmaster (Karpov's name is mentioned) to play Kasparov? It is very convincing. It was shown in the UK on BBC2 and BBC4 as part of a short Storyville season on computers and games though as with other Storyville documentaries it would have been independently made so was probably shown elsewhere as well.


I've read about this and even though IBM might have cheated, it is now well known that the best computer programs (Fritz, Tiger, Hiarcs) regularly win against the top IGM. Only Go is left as the only game where computers are still no match for human!
 
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Lou Moratti
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"I've read about this and even though IBM might have cheated, it is now well known that the best computer programs (Fritz, Tiger, Hiarcs) regularly win against the top IGM. Only Go is left as the only game where computers are still no match for human!"

Not true! I've yet to see a program that will beat an experienced human player in Stratego. (Yes, there is Stratego AI out there!)
 
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Nelson Lamoureux
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tornadog wrote:
Why Kramnik, shouldnt Vishy Anand get it since he's No 2 in the world, Kramnik is only 4th


As I was saying, my understanding of this whole mess is limited, but I think Kramnik is already the world champion since a few years and he was refusing Kasparov a rematch he was pretty sure he would have lost. That is partly why Kasparov decided to retire. One source to consult for more information on this topic is www.chessbase.com and www.chesscafe.com which are covering this pretty extensively. BTW, the ranking is related to the elo rating, not the world championship status.
 
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Richard Hutnik
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haver wrote:
Citadel wrote:
Has anyone seen the documentary "Game Over" in which severval chess experts including Kasparov himself talk about how they think IBM cheated and actually hired a grandmaster (Karpov's name is mentioned) to play Kasparov? It is very convincing. It was shown in the UK on BBC2 and BBC4 as part of a short Storyville season on computers and games though as with other Storyville documentaries it would have been independently made so was probably shown elsewhere as well.


I've read about this and even though IBM might have cheated, it is now well known that the best computer programs (Fritz, Tiger, Hiarcs) regularly win against the top IGM. Only Go is left as the only game where computers are still no match for human!


I disagree with you on Go being the last game left where the computer is still no match for humans. There are others, which can be found in this GeekList: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist.php3?action=view&listi...

I will say, games that the computer plays well against humans can be found at: http://www.zillionsofgames.com
 
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Nelson Lamoureux
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Quote:
I disagree with you on Go being the last game left where the computer is still no match for humans. There are others, which can be found...


Your right. I should have made my statement more precisely. For sure, computers are no match for humans in games such as poker or Diplomacy. What I meant, and I'm pretty sure about this, there are very few abstract strategy games left where the humans still have the upper hand, and Go is probably the best known of the lot. Although I'm certain that, computers becoming more and more powerful and software engineering becoming better every day, it's only a matter of time before all abstract strategy will be dominated by computers.
 
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Ava Jarvis
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It's not so much a matter of software engineering as it is a matter of better algorithms to prune the decision tree and incredibly fast computers to process the decision tree. The other alternative is a neural net, but we're pretty far from that....

Right now what's really stopping computers from "taking over" Go is the fact that the decision tree (the number of possible moves you can make given some board position) is *huge*. The smarter a program is at playing an abstract game, the deeper it must go into the decision tree for each move---which fans out in Go almost exponentially. The amount of processing gets to a point closer to supercomputers trying to figure out weather patterns, maybe even beyond that. Chess itself took a monster computer; Go would take quantum computing, which is my belief. (Moore's law, that processor speeds must double every year or something like that, hasn't been holding for a while now).

Actually, the other thing that's stopping computers where Go is concerned is that it's difficult to develop a Go position value algorithm, which would help in pruning the decision tree down a little bit (the tree is still bloody huge though). Part of this is related to the huge decision tree.

Anyways: Go has many, many positions possible, even for a single game, than many other abstracts. So it's pretty safe to say that, when it comes to monster gaming problems to solve, Go pretty much tops everything else, due to the extreme simplicity of the rules and the hugeness of the board in relation to the pieces, and the fact that you have over 180 pieces per side to worry about.

Even fully-realized GIPF (with all five "subgames" in play as potentials) may not be comparable. You'd have to work out the math.
 
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Jonathan Hessler
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Shogi is more complex than Chess and the best Shogi programs out there are no match for even the lowest rated Shogi professionals. For me though the computer beats me quite handily
 
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Michael Kandrac
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Perhaps the computer experts among us can muse about the comparative efforts and amount of resources that were invested to create the monster that was Big Blue. As I recall, it was a huge undertaking involving unprecedented computing power and a team of programmers and grandmaster consultants assembled for one purpose: to beat the then reigning world chess champion.

It was not a fair fight. Garry Kasparov commited blunders and his greatest chess playing strength was probably behind him at the time of this match. However, human opponents can be studied to determine tendencies and weaknesses. Openings can be prepared by the programmers and the GMs that advised them that allow the best opportunities to trip up an opponent based on previous performance. Kasparov did not have a database of Big Blue games to analyze, but could only apply general principles of man vs. computer, chief among these being the computer's relative lack of strategic vision.

When it comes to Go and Shogi, can anyone describe a similar effort to program a computer comparable to IBM's Big Blue for the stated purpose of defeating a specific human opponent?

Gg
 
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