Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
17 Posts

The Republic of Rome» Forums » Rules

Subject: Still questions regarding Concessions/Valley Games Ed. rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Germany
Cologne
NRW
flag msg tools
So, i understand now, that you *must* collect money from a concession.

But then i don't understand why there is a corruption partition on the concession cards. Why this reminder?

Shouldn't every senator with a concession card at the start of the Revenue Phase be automatically corrupt?

The corruption partition would make more sense if you could choose a concession to be used or not.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Temple
United States
Lynnwood
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There are a couple Concessions, namely Armaments and whatever the associated Navy-Building concession is called, where you ONLY collect when armies/navies are built -- not during every revenue phase, but for every unit built instead. So the corrupt portion of the card allows you to show the turns where those concessions actually pay off.

Until I realized this, it didn't make sense to me, either.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
upandawaygames.com
United States
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Not sure how the VG cards look, but really corruption indicators should be on Senators, not concessions. One example where it matters would be tax farmer monies collected in the Revenue Phase and then that tax farmer destroyed before prosecutions begin. Concessions aren't corrupt; Senators are.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Germany
Cologne
NRW
flag msg tools


Here are two examples of VG Concessions. The Corruption reminder is typed on the card.

Corruption markers are for governors only, if i recall it right (still learning the game, will play it 1st time tomorrow).

Thanks for the quick replies... makes now sense for me.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
Taking a concession is mandatory, and is available to all Senators, not just governors.

The reason the "corrupt" is printed on there so that you can slide the card out and mark the senator corrupt (as opposed to a marker) when he takes the concession and slide it back once the prosecution phase is over.

Remember that some Concessions aren't taken during the income phase but instead when their condition is met (like building legions or fleets). Thus the need to distinguish who is corrupt at this exact moment vs just having the potential.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Bachman
United States
Colonie
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
When this was discussed during development, the reasoning for the corruption indicated on all of the Concession cards was that (a) it eliminated the need to have even more counters on the cards to indicate corruption; and (b) some groups play with Concession income being optional so it allowed them to continue playing that way.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
upandawaygames.com
United States
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So how do you mark him corrupt if the Punic War destroyed his concession?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
heli wrote:
So how do you mark him corrupt if the Punic War destroyed his concession?

You take the Tax Farmer Concession during Phase 2 Revenue and slide out to show the "corrupt" line. Prosecutions take place during Phase 3 Forum. Punic War specifically tells you to remove the concession at the end of this Phase. So what you need the "corruption" for has already been dealt with at the time the card might be removed. There is no need to mark corruption after this point.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Karl Miller
Australia
Canberra
ACT
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ColtsFan76 wrote:
Prosecutions take place during Phase 3 Forum.


No. Prosecutions take place in the Senate Phase after the Censor is elected.

So, how to show a corrupt senator from a destroyed Tax Farmer concession? Use a corruption marker. Kind of lame though.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nico Buffing
Netherlands
Almere
Flevoland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
When I played my first game yesterday, we thought you would be corrupt unless you handed all concession income over to the bank.
Seems we played it wrong.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Belgand
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Maybe it was just me, but I couldn't find anywhere in the rules where it even stipulates that you ever slide out the corrupt indicator. The only exceptions being a specific note (1.09.631) stating this for Armaments and Ship Building. Not even in the Concessions section (1.07.32) does it list when the corrupt portion comes into play.

So, if I understand this correctly:

If a senator has a concession he MUST collect revenue on it when possible, but in doing so he becomes corrupt. So essentially it's impossible to assign a concession to a "clean" senator? I mean, he won't be corrupt at the moment he gets it, but unlike being a governor there's no option that it can be given to someone and have them remain trustworthy. Once you have it you give in to corruption at the first available opportunity.

It seems like it would be possible to use them offensively in this regard by forcing someone to accept a concession from the forum and then prosecuting them as a result. Which seems sort of cheap and wrong. It's one thing to set them up, but forcing them to abuse their authority seems odd.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
You can't force someone to play the concession on their own Senators. So you always have the choice not to play it, or trade it away.

The point of the prosecution, especially in the Early era, is to just threaten with it. If someone is making money, they should be persuaded to donate to the state to help keep it afloat and pay for the wars that will plague it.

Prosecutions aren't mandatory so prevent getting prosecuted by promising the money, political favors, or gaining the office yourself.

If anything, the mechanic is just out there to make the game more interesting by giving more weight to the consequences of decisions.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Belgand
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I guess I just find it astounding that there is almost no way to avoid being labeled corrupt and opening yourself up to prosecution in the game. As a generally risk-averse gamer I'd prefer to keep myself out of trouble sacrificing potential losses rather than opening myself up to even greater ones.

Even just using it as an empty threat seems sort of petty. Why not just allow you to use it in a non-corrupt manner by properly giving the proceeds to the state to begin with (though concession seem to mirror all manner of kickbacks as well as simple skimming) and not even have to go through the pointless little dance of idle threats? Where's the benefit in even taking the concession if you know you'll end up just having to give it to the state or open yourself up to reprisal? You don't get the income and allow a censor to decide he doesn't want to deal if you become a liability in the future?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
The point is there may be many concessions out there but you can only prosecute one person. So even the threat is minor as you may be a 1 of 6 target, and there may be bigger fish to fry.

The games I have played, I have never seen anyone be the target of a concession corruption trial. The one time we got close it was because the other player was being an idiot and we all wanted to punish him. But he quickly vetoed our prosecution and that was that.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Belgand
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It's also the mandatory nature that seems a tad odd since it doesn't correlate with the option to siphon off provincial spoils. My best guess at the reasoning for this is that you have the option of being forced into a governorship, but if you play a concession on a senator you've been given a chance to make your choice. Still, the governorship lets you make up your mind on a turn-by-turn basis while you lose that same flexibility with concessions. I really don't entirely understand why concessions would be made mandatory.

ColtsFan76 wrote:
You can't force someone to play the concession on their own Senators. So you always have the choice not to play it, or trade it away.


Double-checking it seems like you can in rule 1.09.61 "Proposals may be made to assign a specific Concession from the forum to a specific Senator present in Rome." It only works if they've already been lost to the forum, but it appears that it would work.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Bachman
United States
Colonie
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Belgand wrote:
It's also the mandatory nature that seems a tad odd since it doesn't correlate with the option to siphon off provincial spoils. My best guess at the reasoning for this is that you have the option of being forced into a governorship, but if you play a concession on a senator you've been given a chance to make your choice. Still, the governorship lets you make up your mind on a turn-by-turn basis while you lose that same flexibility with concessions. I really don't entirely understand why concessions would be made mandatory.

ColtsFan76 wrote:
You can't force someone to play the concession on their own Senators. So you always have the choice not to play it, or trade it away.


Double-checking it seems like you can in rule 1.09.61 "Proposals may be made to assign a specific Concession from the forum to a specific Senator present in Rome." It only works if they've already been lost to the forum, but it appears that it would work.

Yes, you can force an opposing Senator to be corrupt. This is one of the reasons the "CORRUPT" band was added to all Concessions - some players play that the Concession income is optional. Considering the nature of the game - being able to make strategic decisions to navigate through your opponents to attempt to win the game - the fact that this one rule takes away that key decision never feels right. Nonetheless, when it was changed for the VG edition that was the decision. Prior to that, it was optional.

Living Rules v2.16 wrote:
1.06.13 KNIGHTS/CONCESSIONS: Each Senator collects from the Bank one Talent for each Knight on his card plus he may selectively choose to generate revenue on each Concession he controls.

The portion in the italics is a clarification that had been made for the Living Rules of the 1st Edition. Someone apparently determined that that consensus was incorrect and made Concessions mandatory. The "CORRUPT" strip allows it to be played either way.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sheldon Morris
Canada
Fergus
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
That's really interesting, Steve. I never realized that it was optional in the prior release. I think I may have to give that a try in a future game to see how it feels.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.