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Subject: Shillking part of the Knizia interview ! rss

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Jeff Widderich
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Derk asked Reiner if he played other designers games.
Of course his answer was "No". Derk's razor sharp brain thought of the geek list posted by the Shillking about "not playing other games due to the fear of contamination" and mentioned it! Why couldn't some one else post this for me?

Shillking
 
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ρύπρεχτ
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...I just want to know what exactly is your avatar? I can't tell..... not a criticism, just curious.
 
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Scott A. Reed
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Looks like a cat hanging from a light fixture with the legend "Never Give Up" across the bottom.
 
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Jeff Widderich
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It is the back of a mouse chaos card. It is a mouse hanging off the chandelier stealing cheese off the kitchen table. Title is "never give up" kind of fitting don't you think. I am not sure why the image is so hard to see, I will try to improve it.

Shillking
 
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S W E E T !
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Shillking wrote:
Derk asked Reiner if he played other designers games.
Of course his answer was "No". Derk's razor sharp brain thought of the geek list posted by the Shillking about "not playing other games due to the fear of contamination" and mentioned it! Why couldn't some one else post this for me?

Shillking


And people said Shillking and Knizia would never be mentioned in the same post.

You get 'em shilly!meeple
 
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Rich S.
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Well, this is just silly.
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Why are you speaking in the third person?
 
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Randall Peek
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One time in an interview Bruno Faidutti mentioned a review of mine of one of his games, rather than having it mentioned to him. You don't hear me talking about it, do you. Oh, wait... okay. Never mind.
 
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Justin Fitzgerald
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I believe the first mention of cerebral cleansing might have been Thomas Locke, author of "Leviathan" (cc 1690 or so). Despite being an incredibly brilliant person he refused to read other people's materials on the notion it would taint his own ability to think lucidly.

The basic concept goes back to the nature of creativity (as mentioned in another of the Shillking's posts). Creativity is defined as one of two things generally: the ability to pull new ideas out of thin air (which, arguably simply doesn't happen) or taking old ideas and applying them in new ways.

Those people who are more creative are able to apply ideas more abstractly. For example, a person who sees a two player game and makes it four player game is only creative in a minor sense.

A person who see the way the stocks rise and fall and then decide on a game function which roughly emulates this is more creative (for example, using bidding). The stock market and games are far more divided than game and games after all.

A person who designs a new game function altogether may be said to be the most creative.
 
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Scott Starkey
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Jeff, Jeff... There is a chasmal difference between you and Mr. Knizia. Knizia is a doctor of mathematics, has 100+ published games to his name, and eats, drinks, and lives games. He forges ahead and breaks new ground every year. Although I haven't come close to playing all of his games, many of the games I have played from him I consider great works of art.

You, on the other hand, are just starting out. I guess you might have potential. However, you throw an extra set of pieces on the edge of a chessboard and brag in public forums about how much you've totally revolutionized the game of chess. You "reinvent" dominoes and think you're a genius. You create sock-puppet personalities to create artificial buzz about your games, and cybersquat misspelled domains. I don't see Knizia doing that. He's just cranking out good games.

Knizia has a whole frickin' ROOM OF HIS HOUSE dedicated to designs that he just threw away. They weren't perfect, so he tossed them into his room of misfit games! I have a shoebox packed full misfit games, but this guy has a whole room!

I am of the humble opinion that the masters of our craft have something to teach us, Jeff. I will happily soak up the rules and mind of the masters so that I will be a better designer. While I write this, I'm eagerly awaiting a shipment from Amazon containing (Knizia's) Dice Games Properly Explained, (Sackson's) Card Games From Around the World, and Robin's Laws of Good Game Mastering. (Okay, the third one is not about board or card games, but about RPGs, but I think it will still apply.)

If I am influenced by the likes of Sackson and Knizia, and it "poisons the well" then so be it. There is no way I will know my own personal greatness in cutting-edge game design before I know what greatness is. I doubt I can ever be as great as them, however, I'm sorry to say I have even less hope for you.
 
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Mark Goadrich
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Shillking wrote:
Derk asked Reiner if he played other designers games.
Of course his answer was "No".


If you really believe in your "contamination" philosophy, what are you doing listening to GeekSpeak? In fact, what are you doing here, a site dedicated to other games, not your own? Stop reading BoardGameGeek and contaminating yourself, for the sake of your own future games!
 
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MK
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I predict that Shillking's next game will be "Don't Feed The Troll," and will be based on net forums in which people can't resist replying to a troll's posting. shake
 
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Scott Starkey
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Quote:
I predict that Shillking's next game will be "Don't Feed The Troll," and will be based on net forums in which people can't resist replying to a troll's posting.


Apparently, I wouldn't be very good at this game. blush
 
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MK
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Obviously I wouldn't either, since I did it too. zombie
 
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N.D. Tepe
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KakarisMaelstrom wrote:
I believe the first mention of cerebral cleansing might have been Thomas Locke, author of "Leviathan" (cc 1690 or so). Despite being an incredibly brilliant person he refused to read other people's materials on the notion it would taint his own ability to think lucidly.


Hobbes wrote Leviathan not Locke (not trying to nit-pick, just trying to be accurate).

Nate

 
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Justin Fitzgerald
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ndtepe wrote:

Hobbes wrote Leviathan not Locke (not trying to nit-pick, just trying to be accurate).


I'm actually thankful for the correction - this would explain my terrible time finding proper information on Thomas Locke - seeing as the right name was John Locke (Thomas was his brother) but I was meaning to say Hobbes. What a tragesty(tm)!
 
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ρύπρεχτ
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But whatever he said in the interview (I haven't heard it yet), the truth is he doesn't isolate himself from all other games. Carcassonne:The Castle, LOTR:the confrontation spring immediately to mind. Although certain clusters of Knizia games are sort of similar, overall there is a pretty wide variety, so I don't think he's having any problems with staleness. Not all his games are hits, of course (I actually think Carcassonne:the castle is a stinker), but I do think he deserves the high esteem he receives on BGG.
 
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John Elbl
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kimapesan wrote:
I predict that Shillking's next game will be "Don't Feed The Troll," and will be based on net forums in which people can't resist replying to a troll's posting. shake


I'd kickass at this game.

oh, wait. damn
 
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Brett Myers
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Mozbink wrote:
To paraphrase he says he does not play a lot of other designs because when he has a problem he wants to solve, and knows of an existing solution, he has a tendancy to want to use the known solution, instead of creating his own.

Is this the most productive and effective way of creating? No not really.


Geeze, I'd hate to see him get really productive. He's only got, what, 20 games being published this year?

Quote:
What could happen in this case is you would start to get a pattern of solutions that are somewhat recycled. That is to say, Knizia often reuses his own ideas instead of coming up with totally new ones.


Such as? In the GeekSpeak interview he says he specifically avoids reusing his own ideas...

Quote:
Ever notice that a good deal of Knizia games at their core are really similar to his other games?


Not really. Of course, I haven't played all of them.

 
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Gone Fishing
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Mozbink

Are you a widely reknowned artist? Let's see your work, which came from your influences?

Have you sold millions of games? I'm sorry, but I think Knizia might have a winning development approach on his hands because he knows exactly what works best for him, and gets the most enjoyment from.

Frankly, I'm surprised anyone would criticize his creative process, unless they weren't very creative themselves and haven't dealt with these issues as most creators have.

But compare how many great games Knizia has created to the number of great books a prolific author has written, or the number of great movies a prolific director has filmed, and then you might realize how the level of his quality output is in a class of its own.

He is the Miyazaki of the boardgame industry.
 
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Eddie the Cranky Gamer
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Crunchy Goat wrote:
He is the Miyazaki of the boardgame industry.


And some people with good taste don't like Miyazaki movies.

I think a disservice has been done to Mozbink in this thread.
 
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Gone Fishing
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"I do not have to get run over by a car to know it would hurt."

So you must know everything then? Since you can assume things about anything, then those assumptions must be true? If you know it all, then I won't bother arguing with you.

You won't find me asking a janitor how to make millions, and you wouldn't find me asking you how to design a game.

My point is, from what creative experience do you speak from to know anything about how successful creators should create. You assume to know?

"Saying you like Knizia, which is basically all you did, that and saying he makes a lot of games, has nothing to do with my point."

Actually, I said he is a successful game designer, and you are not.

I never said you shouldn't have an opinion, but we all know what opinions are like.

"Try not to be such a Fanboy."

I'm not. I'm impressed by the quality and breadth of his work. I wouldn't mind being as structured in my life and as creative myself.

"Fanboy."

I read your opinion and proposed a counterpoint. How old are you? If anyone challenges your know-it-all viewpoint of the world you call them a fanboy?

"I do not think the advantages of isolating yourself from your peers, or others who have come before you outweigh the study of those same peoples work."

But doesn't Knizia's success prove otherwise? That is the point I was making.

"And some people with good taste don't like Miyazaki movies."

I was not arguing that everyone had to like Knizia's work. Though the level of quality and care for craft across all of his work is the same style which Miyazaki puts into his own work. If you like animation, you will likely be impressed with Miyazaki's work. If you like games, you will likely be impressed with Knizia's work.

Some people with "good tastes" (whatever that means) might not like Miyazaki's work, but it would have to be in comparison to something better... and hopefully that better thing isn't their own ego.
 
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Gone Fishing
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You're a little FUD-ster, aren't you?

I actually totally demolished your point. Knizia's success proves that his creative style works for him, even if it is isolation.

Now the job for you is to prove otherwise, which you can't, and why your little brain can only think to call me a "fanboy".

"I do not have to paint (which I do), read literature (which I do), study science (which I do), to have an oppinion on the creative process"

Of course not, but to have a valid opinion which actually means something to anyone else you have to be able to prove its worth, which you have failed to do.

Knizia isn't my god, he's just more successful than a loudmouthed nobody on bgg... so maybe his opinion might have more value than yours, you think?
 
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A Derk appears from the mists...
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Obviously, this is goin' no where really fast...
 
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