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Subject: Tweaks rss

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Anthony Rubbo
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I received Wok Star last Friday and played this wonderful game continually through the weekend. There are many well-thought out concepts and the game brings a fun and exciting experience to the players each time they play. I feel some tweaks are required for balance across the various number of players, however, and I would suggest the following:

----------

During setup, place a counter onto a number of the cash track:

Easy: 12
Normal: 9
Hard: 6

(or choose any number you like to alter difficulty further)


At the start of the game (after giving out the Character cards, Recipes, Preparations, and starting dice), go around the table, with each player in turn spending these starting points until all have been spent:

Cost
---------------
2 -- Extra Die
2 -- Upgrade
1 -- Ingredients (one each matching the Preparation cards of all players)

Victory Condition:

4-Player -- $80
3-Player -- $60
2-Player -- $40

(regardless of difficulty)


----------



If you test this and have feedback, please feel free to post.


All the best,

- Anthony
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Tim Fowers
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I think this is a great variant. Please try it out and we may adopt it as the default setup/goal rules.

1-2 player games are pretty brutal, with fewer dice, bad roll can really hurt. I think this levels it out more, but still stays flexible and simple.

Also this is fun to choose a # of points to start with. Say once you beat the game with 9 points, you can try and beat it with only 8, etc. It simplifies the difficulty system into a single gradient of starting points.
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Chris Funk
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Chris Funk
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A simpler way would be to say one of your player's bonuses at the start can be buying any two ingredients.

It also does boost the difficulty quite a bit by the looks of it. You're techinically using less bonuses in quantity for the group (with 12 points, if four players all add a die, you are down to only 4 points and then only two people can do an upgrade/die or add 4 individual ingredients and no one else upgrades). Tied along with the higher ending point total, that's a real difficult thing to do on easy. Most of my games have rarely beat 80 points and averaged 72-74 when we would win.
 
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Anthony Rubbo
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The Ingredient benefit gives one each of all ingredients in play. Now clarified above.

For 4 players, "Easy" is harder, but "Hard" is easier, and "Normal" is essentially the same. The goal is to have it be much more manageable for 2 & 3 players.

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Lee Fisher
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Fubeca wrote:
I think this is a great variant. Please try it out and we may adopt it as the default setup/goal rules.

1-2 player games are pretty brutal, with fewer dice, bad roll can really hurt. I think this levels it out more, but still stays flexible and simple.

Also this is fun to choose a # of points to start with. Say once you beat the game with 9 points, you can try and beat it with only 8, etc. It simplifies the difficulty system into a single gradient of starting points.


Nice info, I'll have to try it out!
 
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Chris Ferejohn
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So on Easy I can pin all of the ingredients at 6, and get a total of 3 extra dice/upgrades? That seems like it would make the first round pretty rote, especially with 2. Am I misunderstanding?
 
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Brian M
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Monday, we received Wok Star (at long last) and tried it two player. Now, Lisa and I are no strangers to either real time or co-op games, and generally no slouches either. We figured we could handle this.

Ouch. First game we didn't get clobbered - 26 points - but we really had no chance of making enough money to win. Second time, we lost in the 2nd round! Then we decided to try a game without the timers - a win with $39. Barely a win. Yoiks! This felt really, really brutal, and like 20 seconds was much too short.

Enter this Tweak thread. We tried playing this tonight, with 12 bonus points, and it felt like about the perfect difficulty for an "easy" level for 2 players. It was quite challenging - first game tonight we lost (had enough money, but we'd gotten too greedy and couldn't feed all our customers!), second game was a close win ($43).

I really like how this can scale up in difficulty more gradually, and how you can adapt your starting set up more based on what dishes you've got.

This tweak looks like a winner to me!
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Jeffrey Speer
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These tweaks seem pretty popular. Are they really going to be incorporated into the rules?

We tried them tonight, and I thought it was pretty great
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Cody Walker
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We have played 5 games with 2 players. We used the regular rules for the first 4 games and we were feeling very discouraged. We really didn't have much chance to win any of the 4 games.

Tonight we played with the "Tweaks," and we were much more satisfied. We didn't win, but we did make it to the last customer of the last round before we ran of food. Had we been able to feed him, we would have finished with $41 and the win.

The tweaks made the game a lot more balanced and it felt like what I expected the game to be all along. I am fairly certain that we will play with the tweaked rules from now on.

I am very interested to see which rules you will go in the future Tim. Have you played with the tweaked rules? Also Tim, I would be very interested in a few rounds of gameplay video of you and your buds from the other video playing with the original rules. I am just curious about what your decision making and thought process is between rounds.
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Chris Ferejohn
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Another vote for the tweaks! Tried them with 3 and barely won, then twice with 4 and barely lost both times - all new players other than me and it was close though.
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Cody Walker
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LemonyFresh wrote:
I received Wok Star last Friday and played this wonderful game continually through the weekend. There are many well-thought out concepts and the game brings a fun and exciting experience to the players each time they play. I feel some tweaks are required for balance across the various number of players, however, and I would suggest the following:

----------

During setup, place a counter onto a number of the cash track:

Easy: 12
Normal: 9
Hard: 6

(or choose any number you like to alter difficulty further)


At the start of the game (after giving out the Character cards, Recipes, Preparations, and starting dice), go around the table, with each player in turn spending these starting points until all have been spent:

Cost
---------------
2 -- Extra Die
2 -- Upgrade
1 -- Ingredients (one each matching the Preparation cards of all players)

Victory Condition:

4-Player -- $80
3-Player -- $60
2-Player -- $40

(regardless of difficulty)


----------



If you test this and have feedback, please feel free to post.


All the best,

- Anthony



Ok just a clarification, do you still get your bonuses if you play this way?
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Chris Ferejohn
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codybear37 wrote:

Ok just a clarification, do you still get your bonuses if you play this way?


No, this is in lieu of the bonuses (basically it gives you some more customization for your bonuses).
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Cody Walker
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Thanks. We decided to not use the bonuses as that seemed a little excessive.

My question is, how does everyone play when using 4 players since using the 12 bonus dollars would give you less bonuses?

Maybe use the $12 and give each player 1 bonus?

Or just have a different monetary amount other than 12?
 
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Chris Ferejohn
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I think the idea was that the bonuses didn't scale well - 4P was manageable as it was, and 2-3P was really hard (though with the tweaks I won with 3P and lost twice with 4P so this might swing it the other way).

It seems to me that you should avoid dice as much as possible since you can earn them for "free" by completing recipes. Upgrades and free ingredients.
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