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Subject: Whitehall & Hospital rss

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Rich P
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Whitehall is one of my favourite cards, but we came across a combination which caused some confusion when I had both it and a Hospital in play. How do Whitehall and Hospital interact, if at all? Can you activate Whitehall to use Card X twice, then flip Hospital instead of Card X? Or can you use Card X, announce your intention to flip Hospital instead, then use Whitehall to use Card X again? Which of these options is possible and what state would Card X be in afterwards (flipped or unflipped)?

The rulebook's notes on Hospital read: "You cannot activate the card again this turn", but is Whitehall an exception to this?

Both of these cards have special abilities which interrupt the usual sequence of activating a card. However, the only rules I can find on exactly when you flip a card are in the 'Example of Running a City' where all cards are flipped at the end of the Run City action. I assume this is always the case, and you don't flip cards immediately after using that particular card (although we tend to do this as a reminder of which cards were used). Otherwise, that would preclude the use of Hospital or Whitehall.
 
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Jeff Thornsen
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I don't have access to the rules or exact text on the Whitehall card, but...

I thought that Whitehall just copies the effect of any other card in your City? In other words, when you activate Whitehall, you just pretend the Card has the same effect as any other card on your table (Minus the activation cost), and then flip Whitehall over. The card you copied is not affected in any way.

You could flip the Hospital instead of Whitehall, which would allow you to use Whitehall again on a future turn. Or you could flip Hospital instead of any other card - regardless of whether Whitehall has been used or not.

I'm pretty sure you could even flip Whitehall as if it was a Hospital, effectively giving you 2 Hospitals for the turn (I'm not sure if this would ever been a good move though...)

We always play that you activate your cards in any order, but the Cards flip over as you activate them. I can only think of a small number of scenarios where the order in which you flip your cards would matter (Namely, if you were using Whitehall to copy the effect of the card that gives you VPs for every non-brown card in your City).
 
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Daniel Corban
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Just by reading the detailed description of Whitehall in the rulebook, it appears that, yes, it is not intended for you to flip any cards until the end of your "run city" action. This makes it very clear how these cards should interact.

*edit*
I re-read the rules text, and I now believe it doesn't matter when you flip the cards. There is no firm rule. The rules text for Whitehall just says that you cannot activate a card that was "flipped on a previous turn". I initially interpreted that to mean that you flipped at the end of turn, but now it seems clear that it allows you to do exact what it says: activate a card a second time. If you happened to have flipped it already this turn, so what? You can peek at it and activate it again. The text is just clarifying that you had to have activated the card this turn.
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Daniel Corban
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Faranim wrote:

I thought that Whitehall just copies the effect of any other card in your City?


No. It specifically allows you to activate a particular card more than once this turn.
 
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Larry Levy
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This is a guess, Rich, but I would say you can't use both Hospital and Whitehall in the same turn. The notes for Hospital say you can flip it instead of the card you just activated, so I'd say timing-wise, you need to activate Card X, then the Hospital, then Whitehall (since it only works on a card already activated on that turn). So the Hospital's effect happens first and it says that you can't activate Card X again that turn.

However, it's possible that those words were put in to clarify that the Hospital doesn't allow players to routinely activate a card twice during one Run City action, but keep them around for a future Run City action. If that's their only purpose, they might not be intended to apply to Whitehall. So it would be nice to get an official ruling on this.
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mfl134
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My take:

I would say using Hospital on Whitehall is probably the way to go.

That being said, if you wanted to use Hospital and Whitehall on the same card, I would say activate it twice and then keep it for the next round. I don't think it really breaks anything.
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Daniel Corban
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I think it's obvious that the Hospital card text against being able to activate the target card again is just to prevent being able to activate the unflipped card again as part of your normal operations, instead of it being some hard rule against activation via other means (such as Whitehall).
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Steve Duff
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I don't see a conflict here.

Hospital just means you flip it instead of a card that was activated this turn.

Whitehall means you can activate a card twice, breaking the normal rule that you can only activate each card once a Run (a rule that Hospital is just reminding you of, not creating).

Normal: You activate card A. Whitehall lets you activate it a second time. You flip both.

Hospital in the equation: You activate card A. Whitehall lets you activate it a second time. Hospital lets you flip Hospital instead of A or Whitehall, your choice.
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Daniel Corban
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Word.
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