Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
23 Posts

Alien Frontiers» Forums » General

Subject: Something Missing? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
A.T. Selvaggio
United States
Webster
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I really enjoyed playing this game. I have played one practice game and one real game. It was fun and intuitive. One thing stood out to me as missing in comparison to many other worker placement games - the end game scoring surprise. Maybe I have not played it enough, but it seems, as others have pointed out, that there is one path to victory and no surprise winners. Thoughts from those with more plays under their belts?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew
Japan
Tokyo
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Scoring is open, the game ends when someone gets their last colony down, and a lot of the game is about dragging the leader back, so shouldn't be surprised when someone wins. That said, I did convince people to hold back 1st and 2nd place, after which they realised that I'd jump from 3rd place to win the game - and I did.

With use of Alien techs (eg swapping colonies), there can be swings of 3-4 points on the last turn, in our games enough to propel someone at the back of the pack to the front.

In the games I've played, 3 people have been in the running to win on the very last turn, and I suspect the 4th player wasn't far off either.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well, you could always NOT use the scoreboard. People would have to count scores manually so they'd probably make mistakes and the winner might easily be a surprise.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justin Robben
United States
Spring Hill
Florida
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'll say that I have steadily been losing interest in this game. Each play has gotten worse, for me. Now...I only have 4 plays, but...that's alarming, imo. Usually a game gets better with each play, hehe...

Now...I have noticed that there is no surprise winner...but there is a stealing winner. Someone who does enough on their last turn to "steal" victory away from the one who was currently leading. Not much of a surprise...more of a "gee, I hope you can't do enough here to steal the win"...

My problem with the game is:

1) that there are other dice allocation games I just happen to like better.

2) it lasts a bit long for what you get (imo)

3) there is basically, that one path to victory you mentioned

4) the Raider's Outpost drives me friggin' bananas. I hate it. If I decide to keep my copy and not sell it...I am house-ruling it. My game, my choice. But it has ruined the game, for me.

5) each play has been...samey. Similar to #3, but still technically a different argument...

Well, I've ranted. Thanks...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Kalidor wrote:
Now...I have noticed that there is no surprise winner...but there is a stealing winner. Someone who does enough on their last turn to "steal" victory away from the one who was currently leading. Not much of a surprise...more of a "gee, I hope you can't do enough here to steal the win"...


Hi Justin...Well, no game can be everything for everyone, so no worries...but I have to ask...why is it a bad thing if a player who is not in the lead is able to pull off a creative and wonderful combination of dice, alien tech, and territory bonuses to score a win? Seems like he should be lauded for his innovation not castigated because the people he walloped.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Todd France
United States
flag msg tools
IF ONLY I had a plan...
badge
The lesser of two evils?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Kalidor wrote:
4) the Raider's Outpost drives me friggin' bananas. I hate it. If I decide to keep my copy and not sell it...I am house-ruling it. My game, my choice. But it has ruined the game, for me.

Care to elaborate?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christian Wilson
United States
Birmingham
Alabama
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Kalidor wrote:
I'll say that I have steadily been losing interest in this game. Each play has gotten worse, for me. Now...I only have 4 plays, but...that's alarming, imo. Usually a game gets better with each play, hehe...

If you decide you want to sell your copy, I'd be happy to take it off your hands.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justin Robben
United States
Spring Hill
Florida
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
@ David No, no...it's not a bad thing at all...just lacks...climax. For me, at least.

Your game is getting plenty of awesome reviews, so I am sure it's me and what I may want out of the game.

Not bashing it...just cooling off of the high of rules reading and the 1st play.
As I said...each play has left me less and less happy and/or wanting to play again.

@ Todd As for the Raider's...I hate it. I realize there is supposed to be some amount of confrontation, but I think it's very harsh. Maybe it's the guys I play with. One of them is very aggressive and continuously harasses with it. Now, I'm not being a baby here...just explaining what I don't like about it. Our 2rd player got the Alien tech that protects. So did this aggressive player. And he rolls (strangely all the time) straights. I don't...as a rule, hehe. The one time I did, I took the card from him (by rule) and on the very next turn he simply took it back.
Over the course of the game I lost 20...20 resources to both of these guys. 16 to the one guy and 4 to the other. They lost none. Both because of being protected and the fact that I didn't roll any straights that beat the straights already entered.
This is the general concept in back-to-back plays. Maybe not enough of a sampling to make a judgment or indictment on the game...but enough to sour me!

I might house rule it to 2 or 3 resources. 4 is simply unsatisfactory for me. And it's my game, so blah!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben
United States
Ann Arbor
Michigan
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Kalidor wrote:
No, no...it's not a bad thing at all...just lacks...climax. For me, at least.

For what it's worth, my wife said something similar. She said that she liked the game, but that the ending was so anticlimactic that it ruined the game for her. We sold our copy.

I didn't quite get her same feeling, but I wanted you to know you're not alone.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Kalidor wrote:
Not bashing it...just cooling off of the high of rules reading and the 1st play. As I said...each play has left me less and less happy and/or wanting to play again.


That's fine. I'm happy to have a variety of opinions out there. Everyone I know seems to love Dominion but it just doesn't grab me.

BTW, I was going through some very old game files the other day and found an early board design. The Raider's Outpost (back when it was called "The Secret Tunnels") was steal 2 fuel or 1 ore or one "martian tech" from one player. Over time that spot went through a lot of changes. So, feel free to scale it back if you like. Find the sweet spot that works best for you.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rick Holzgrafe
United States
Happy Valley
Oregon
flag msg tools
designer
badge
"the understandably frightening and chimeric semicolon" -- HiveGod
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There might be some validity to the "anti-climax" claim; but that never really bothered me in a game. I do think there's more than one path to victory. Every time we've played, we've learned something new about strategy. The game is a good deal deeper than we thought at first, and that's always a good sign. We're still exploring it, and still having fun.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adam Brant
Canada
Stittsville
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Kalidor wrote:


1) that there are other dice allocation games I just happen to like better.



Mind if I ask what it is? I haven't really played any yet so I'm curious.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justin Robben
United States
Spring Hill
Florida
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
GamerAtom wrote:
Kalidor wrote:


1) that there are other dice allocation games I just happen to like better.



Mind if I ask what it is? I haven't really played any yet so I'm curious.


Sure...although none of these play exactly like Alien Frontiers.

They all just happen to utilize dice as your "worker"...

* Kingsburg and Troyes are far better, to me. Especially if you use some of the modules in the Kingsburg expansion.

* Alea Iacta Est , although vastly different (dice is the only similarity actually )

* Yspahan and Stone Age also come to mind.

There are other great dice games, too...and I'm not saying all of them are better than Alien Frontiers...that's for you to decide. Opinions are like...well, you know.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gláucio Reis
Brazil
Rio de Janeiro
RJ
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Kalidor wrote:
* Yspahan and Stone Age also come to mind.

I wouldn't put Stone Age in the same category as the rest. You don't allocate dice in it, you allocate your wooden workers. Even if each worker in the production areas equals one die, you roll the dice after they are allocated. That is totally different from rolling the dice and then allocating them based on the results.

Other games that do feature the dice allocation mechanic are Roma and its sequel Arena: Roma II.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
DJ
United States
Calhoun
Georgia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Here is what I've gathered from people complaining about the Raider's Outpost.


If you are the type of gamer who likes to plan 4 moves in advance so you squeeze out 100% effectiveness in all your turns so you can squash your less-than-optimal opponent 100 to 1 and you don't want them to be able to do a thing about it, then you won't like Alien Frontiers.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gláucio Reis
Brazil
Rio de Janeiro
RJ
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
crash331 wrote:
Here is what I've gathered from people complaining about the Raider's Outpost.

If you are the type of gamer who likes to plan 4 moves in advance so you squeeze out 100% effectiveness in all your turns so you can squash your less-than-optimal opponent 100 to 1 and you don't want them to be able to do a thing about it, then you won't like Alien Frontiers.

I can't see the relation. "The type of gamer who likes to plan 4 moves in advance" will dislike or not even play the game, with or without the Raiders' Outpost, as the dependence on dice rolls obviously prevents any forward planning. (The resulting downtime is actually another common complaint.)

Just for the record, I have played the game with a number of different gamers, and most of them complained at some degree about the Raiders' Outpost. There was one person who was fine with it, because he enjoys this type of screw-your-neighbor interaction, but even he agreed it was too powerful. And, of course, none of them is the type of gamer you describe.

Last but not least, it's perfectly possible to enjoy the game and dislike the Raiders' Outpost, as most of my fellow gamers and I do.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven De Toni
New Zealand
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
GSReis wrote:
Last but not least, it's perfectly possible to enjoy the game and dislike the Raiders' Outpost, as most of my fellow gamers and I do.


The Raiders Outpost doesn't seem that powerful to me. It costs you 3 dice to use, which in a game with dice that gives options, its a lot to give up. You could in fact purchase Alien Tech cards cheaper than to steal one from another player, and resources aren't that hard to come by. Thus the reason for the Raider Outpost becomes clear, steal Alien Tech cards to gain victory points or reduce abilities. As for stealing resources from other players, you shouldn't hold on too many resources between turns to reduce this option to players... (i.e. not worth the effort).

For these reasons, The Raiders Output is probably the least used ability on the board when we play.... most times its not worth the effort.

Really like this game in the same way as Settlers of Catan, game play is simple yet interesting in a combination of ways.


1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alexis Carlough
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
pseudotheist wrote:
Kalidor wrote:
4) the Raider's Outpost drives me friggin' bananas. I hate it. If I decide to keep my copy and not sell it...I am house-ruling it. My game, my choice. But it has ruined the game, for me.

Care to elaborate?


Have you thought of grabbing the Holigraphic Decoy? Usually 1 or 2 players will grab hold of one and then if someone raiders you they steal the decoy... And you steal back. In our games a couple decoys remove the incentive to raid (dobI really want to get in a stealing war with Craig? Maybe not. Because my group can be kind of vengeful and the stealing will go back and forth)

Antways: I like the open score, since otherwise everyone assumes I'M in the lead (or will be soon) and fights me.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Torn
Germany
Bonn
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
If the other players steal your resources three turns in a row in the beginning of the game you can as well quit immediately and read a good book instead. Happens every other game we played and usually kicks out one player right from the start.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gar Per
United States
Greenwood
Indiana
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TORN wrote:
If the other players steal your resources three turns in a row in the beginning of the game you can as well quit immediately and read a good book instead. Happens every other game we played and usually kicks out one player right from the start.


In every other game you play, people with only 3-4 dice manage to roll three dice in number order during the first 3 turns, and then select to steal from the same player repeatedly, who also somehow manages to generate enough resources between each of these raids so that there is something for them to steal?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Cookingham
United States
Poughkeepsie
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Kalidor wrote:
4) the Raider's Outpost drives me friggin' bananas.


I agree. Other than the AP the game generates, it is the worst aspect of the game. The person that gets in the lead of number of ships is in a better shape to attack the player(s) without as many ships.

I find the key is to try not to hold on to any resources, but that isn't always an option with how the rolls happens and where other people place their ships.

The outpost sucks a lot of the fun out of the game for me.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russell Martin
United States
Maryland
flag msg tools
Sanctify!
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have to agree with the sentiments about an anti-climatic feeling at the end of the game, even when I'm the person that wins...

Still trying to work out if I really like this game or not. Hard to put my finger on exactly what it is that I don't like (aside from what I said above). What I do like... good concept, nice artwork, not overly complicated rules, etc, etc. Waiting to get my copy of Factions to try out and see how it alters/adds to the game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott M.
United States
Winter Springs
Florida
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
WE use a house rule for Raiders out post:

"You may only steal as many resources as your Lowest Die roll in the Sequence"

Thus a person who places a 2-3-4 may only steal 2 resources. Thus a person who rolls a 4-5-6 after can take the space limit of 4.

This prevents Super mooching and bases the effectiveness of your raiders on the quality of ships you want to allocate.

IT works super well preventing a crippling theft.
1 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.