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Subject: GeekList Tag Abuse rss

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Corey Butler
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Here are a few tags from some recent GeekLists: poorly_named_list,
list_for_jerks, another_list_for_leftist_jerks. Is the purpose of tags to abuse other gamers now? If you have a problem with a list, I would suggest that you give it a low rating, post a comment for discussion, notify an admin, or send a (polite) email to the creator of the list. It seems rude and even a little cowardly to pop a nasty tag on it without explaining your position.
 
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Alan Kaiser
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I can see the use of tags but it seems that the abusive tags that I have seen really make having them not worth it. The more of this stuff I see and the more attacks and flame wars that show up in the GeekLists and forums the more I think I'm back at r.g.b. and the more it reminds me of why I left that forum.
 
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Daniel Kearns
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I would prefer a finite list of valid tags that you could click and add to a list. This would also make searching tags much easier.
 
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I've never seen a flying hogfish. I saw one gliding once, but never flying, not actually flying.
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I find the tagging of 'poorly_named_list' particularly annoying, who was made Police Chief of Naming? Should we have a censor who gets to pass all the names to make sure they're meeting some narrow sense of validity? That was one of my motivations for making the list 'Poorly Named List' as I'd got sick of getting that tag attached to any list I made that didn't have a blindly obvious and explanative title.
 
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Quote:
I would prefer a finite list of valid tags that you could click and add to a list. This would also make searching tags much easier.


... and ...

Quote:
I find the tagging of 'poorly_named_list' particularly annoying, who was made Police Chief of Naming? Should we have a censor who gets to pass all the names to make sure they're meeting some narrow sense of validity?


Yeah, I predicted this sort of thing would happen. I can't find the post where I made that prediction (I delete my "served its purpose" journal entries), but I said something along those lines. It kind of rides that same train as rating and its inherent flaws.

To Aldie's credit, when I brought this up the first time, he said that they would move toward a standardized list of tags, but he wanted to see what the users used first.
 
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Corey Butler
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If Aldie's planning to standardize the tags at some point, then this problem will take care of itself. Another option that occurred to me was allowing GeekList authors to edit and control the tagging that occurs on their own lists.

By the way, I should point out that the "jerk" tags I referenced above have been removed. I'm going to leave this forum up though, as it seems like an issue we need to pay attention to.
 
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I've never seen a flying hogfish. I saw one gliding once, but never flying, not actually flying.
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Of course, that's assuming that Aldie doesn't include 'poorly_named_list' as one of the options...

As I see it, the purpose of tags should be to inform the topic of the list - hence making the title less relevant if anything. Using tags to abuse the list writer, regardless of the reason is ridiculous - if you've got an opinion, at least stick it in as a comment - that way it's easy for everyone to see who that opinon belongs to.

While I don't claim to be an expert, as my several 'poorly_named_list' citations from concerned geeks proves, I think there should be some room for creativity in the name of a list - if the name is slightly mysterious or uncertain, perhaps that's part of the fun? OK, so if you name a list 'my favourite card games' and it's a list of board games involving pigs, then maybe you've got a right to be hacked off. But, if you're browsing lists, either you think, 'sounds interesting, I'm prepared to be burned if it's not', or you think, 'nope, not sure what that one's about, better not take the chance'. If you're browsing random, vaguely interesting geek lists, then presumably you have a little time to spare anyway, what does it matter if you lose a minute of your life looking at something that you're not excited by at the end of the day?
 
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Scott Russell
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Why not make the list owner's tag visible to all, but restrict all others to their Geekbuddies? Then any abusive tags would only be visible to one's Geekbuddies.
 
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Justin Fitzgerald
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Better idea, just ban certain words from being in tags. That would allow new tags to get created (things that might not have been considered) but keep users from putting in crap. People purposely circumventing could loser tag privledges.
 
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Corey Butler
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KakarisMaelstrom wrote:
Better idea, just ban certain words from being in tags.


I've seen some attempts to restrict the words used on other forums and they don't tend to work very well. People can be quite creative with alternate spellings.
 
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Scott Alden
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Not sure what to do about tags.. for 1 thing I screwed up and allowed underscores. I'm pretty sure they aren't allowed in the spec they use for technorati or del.icio.us
 
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Eileen Duffy
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I'd recommend banning folks who do stuff like that. Why is this place turning so nasty lately? shake

Why can't we all just play games???
 
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Vincent
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The Virgin Queen has spoken! SILENCE THE NASTY FOLK!
 
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Corey Butler
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Melantha wrote:
Why is this place turning so nasty lately? shake

Why can't we all just play games???


Growing pains, I imagine. What was the last statistic, we're getting several hundred new members a month? You pack more people into a place and you're bound to get more conflicts. We've just got to make sure we can balance the bad with a lot more good, and create a structure that promotes that balance.
 
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Ava Jarvis
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Melantha wrote:
I'd recommend banning folks who do stuff like that. Why is this place turning so nasty lately? shake

Why can't we all just play games???


I think because some people are starting to see BGG as a game. Or, to be more specific, they see any site with social attributes as a game.

Aldie and Derk will figure something out. They always do.
 
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Jorgen
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Duh If you don't like the tag Just PM the person who set it and ask them to remove it

EDIT:
Also whats with this ban-happy stuff?
"I dont agree with someones view points OMG TEH BANS THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!~~"
"I NOES LIKES YOUU! U GET BAN NOW!"
"BAN THEMS!!!"
"YOU POST MAKES ME CRYS YOU NEEDS BANS NOWS!!!"
"OMG OMG OMG! I NOES LIKES YOU YOU NEEDS A BANS!"

(Sorry about the caps, If you dont like them YOU NEEDS BANS!)
Hell it seems like thats all people say when they dont like someones view point shake

Quote:
I've seen some attempts to restrict the words used on other forums and they don't tend to work very well. People can be quite creative with alternate spellings.

Yes example:
The tag "this_list_sucks" becomes "this_list_is_t_eh_s_uck"
 
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Ava Jarvis
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I think it's more an indication of frustration with the poor conduct that's been happening. People aren't asking to ban other users because of their point of view--they're asking to ban them because of poor conduct, which is a different issue from agreeing or disagreeing with someone (even if the agreement or disagreement is about *what* consititutes poor conduct).
 
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Jorgen
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Yeah BUT we dont even have a TOS(Terms of Service) so I blame that as why most of this is going on.

I say that we use sompthign like this for a while
http://www.war-forums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22556
 
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Ava Jarvis
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Very good point, Jorgen. I think we need a ToS very badly--or at least, that every social site needs one. (I liked the Fawkes version.)
 
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Eileen Duffy
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the_redstar_swl wrote:

EDIT:
Also whats with this ban-happy stuff?
"I dont agree with someones view points OMG TEH BANS THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!~~"
"I NOES LIKES YOUU! U GET BAN NOW!"
"BAN THEMS!!!"
"YOU POST MAKES ME CRYS YOU NEEDS BANS NOWS!!!"
"OMG OMG OMG! I NOES LIKES YOU YOU NEEDS A BANS!"

(Sorry about the caps, If you dont like them YOU NEEDS BANS!)
Hell it seems like thats all people say when they dont like someones view point shake


Thank you for making my point about nastiness for me. This is exactly the kind of thing that is going to drive away people who actually have something useful to say. I didn't say banning should have anything to do with someone's point of view.
 
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jefF, There are some who call me... DuneKitteh
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The more of this stuff I see and the more attacks and flame wars that show up in the GeekLists and forums the more I think I'm back at r.g.b. and the more it reminds me of why I left that forum.


Yeah, tell me about it. While no one has ever accused me of being a nice guy without provicaton :-P, I've also never just started being an ass to users here without SOME reason. It's one of the reasons that I've pretty much taken a back seat about participating here... while the moderated forums are at least a bit of s step in the right direction, there is now just simply a way too high of a ratio here of people that are being dicks JUST to be dicks about stuff. Make a system that anyone can abuse and the asshats WILL come out of the woodwork to abuse it ("Like, dude, OMG they have free accounts over at BGG and unmoderated systems to participate - let's go!!!") - it's simply the way of the internet, where anyone can act like a 14 year old, regardless of their age. :-/
 
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Chuck Uherske
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Not meaning to justify nasty tags, but speaking for myself, I am much less irritated by the nasty tags than I am by the nasty, aggressive geeklists to begin with.

When I open up BGG and I see listed among the column on the left, a geeklist about hannitized savage nation dittoheads, or whatever the heck it was, or another devoted to michael moore's vacuous slacker followers, or whatever the implication was there, I know there's nothing there for me to enjoy.

If someone posts a tag about a "list for leftist jerks" that isn't nice, but it's the rejoinder, not the initial aggression. If people wouldn't go on the offensive in the first place, a lot of the other problems would disappear. If someone storms into a room and begins a round of name-calling, someone else will call him a jerk in return; it's a pretty easy prediction.

My personal solution to this is that I don't click on these lists to begin with, so I don't read their aggressive, irritating content, nor do I read their tags. But I do this mostly because my own experience here is ruined whenever I get sucked into this stuff, not because I think it's any more effective than public ridicule in deterring the behavior.
 
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John O'Haver PhoDOGrapher
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I just read this today.

"Civility costs nothing and buys everything." ~ Mary Wortley Montague (1689-1762)

"Civility is the key ingredient in the grease that allows civilization to inch forward without grinding itself to dust." ~ John Roush, president of Centre College

Robert Heinlein wrote something similar in The Notebooks of Lazaruz Long chapters in Time Enough for Love. I don't know it well enough to quote it.

In essence, it's not what one thinks that causes harm but what one says and does.

The relative anonymity of our internet identities tempt us all to one degree or another to instantly submit our most ill considered thoughts without considering the impact on others. Tag abuse permits labeling without taking personal ownership. Cowardly and uncivil.

"PEOPLE! Sure glad I'm not one." ~ Scribidinus Prolificus
 
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Vincent
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Quote:
Tag abuse permits labeling without taking personal ownership. Cowardly and uncivil.


It seems like everyone thinks these tags are anonymous. They're not. If you click the number next to the tag, it tells you who posted it. It may not be quite as obvious as a normal comment, but it's not hidden, either.
 
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Justin Fitzgerald
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Seriously - we just need to strip people's rights to make tags if they abuse it. I really feel that a "use it and lose it" policy to direct or indirect flaming is going to be the best way to handle it. If people are too immature to play well with others, just restrict how they're allowed to play. Obvious attempts to fuck with the system should be dealt with without remorse.
 
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