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Subject: I WIIIIIIIIISH I could design a cricket game... rss

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Luke Morris
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...that wasn't ball by ball but instead focussed on the to-ing and fro-ing over the course of the sessions of play. A game where a test series could be played in 90-120 minutes and leave the players feeling like they've played what feels like an approximation of a cricket test series.


Anyone else wish the same?

I think cricket would be one of the HARDEST sports to stylize in this way. Football has a lower number of goals so games like The World Cup Game can excellently give an idea. Basketball only has five players so it can focus on the player drafting and squad building used in BasketBoss....Even baseball and US football with their fewer "bursts of play" give themselves more smoothly to a game.


Oh how I would love to sort out a Test Series game or at least a Cricket World Cup game.......
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Richard Irving
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Not being an expert on cricket, I would think baseball games would be your best bet--both being bat on ball games.

One baseball game you might check out could be Pennant Race, a statistical simulation of the 162 game baseball season, where entire games are simulated with a relatively few dice rolls.

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Wynand Louw
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Why not make a simulation of Pakistani and Indian Bookies rigging the game?
One player could play the Pakistani police and the others the different bookies. You could have auctions (bidding to buy individual cricket players), assassinations and blackmail. Eventually the player who wins the most money from his shady bookmaking wins the game.

Question of the week: How much were the bowlers paid by bookies to allow AB de Villiers to break the record?
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Tim Synge
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Sounds great. I loved the way that the designer of Wicked Wickets suggested at Essen that the game could be used to play a whole test series, then admitted that it was probably better suited to a limited overs game.

I imagine that you would have to model an over as the base unit of time. This would allow a game to flow six times as fast as a game based on ball-by-ball play. To go any further would lose any ability to include individual players. Alternatively, you could take a much more top-down approach and abandon most of the actual gameplay.

Fond memories of playing "dot cricket" all through the summer term at school. We used to work through a touring team's summer, in the good old days when they played five tests and about ten county matches too ...
 
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Eddy Richards
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I wonder if it might work this way:

Test match = 5 days x 3 sessions = 15 sessions.

So one session per turn isn't unreasonable, aiming for each turn to last about 5 mins.

Break each session down into 3 slots of 10 overs, which becomes the basic unit of game play. Then whatever mechanism you use (cards, dice) operates at that level.
It would be easy to have each team have slightly different characteristics (Pakistan: highly variable; India: great batting, mediocre bowling: England: batting collapse), introduce weather and other conditions (harder to bat in the morning for example). You could also include team selection, perhaps each play has a card indicating batting/bowling skill which affect how things pan out.

And of course you have to have the possibility of freak results lke Headingly 1981 or even Cardiff 2009.
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Luke Morris
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I was thinking sessions or a few sections within a session. More to show an ebb and flow of a match. Of course the blow-by-blow duel of a batsman vs a bowler would be lost but that'd be lost in anything other than a ball-by-ball simulation anyway!
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Si
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For the love of all that is holy, will someone just ask her about the book?
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HamsterOfFury wrote:
I think cricket would be one of the HARDEST sports to stylize in this way.

Agreed. But isn't that why we love it? There's so much more going on than someone chucking a ball down the pitch. You just need to look at the current test for evidence - it looked bad for England on the first three days, then everything changed yesterday. In terms of the match they're still behind, but if they get a draw (by no means certain at present) they'll have the moral victory. I can't see that being replicated in a board game any time soon.

Sure baseball has its nuances, but it's too different to international cricket to be a replacement.

Edit: woooah! three replies posted in the time it took me to type mine.
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Nigel Thomas
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Ok, here's a thought, if you don't want to play the game ball by ball how about over by over?

Let's say the fielding team has 5 bowlers, each bowler has a set of 10 cards describing the following:

Attacking over – Defensive over – Poor over – Demon over – Varied over etc. etc.

These bowling characteristics can be varied per bowler so the opening bowlers would perhaps have more attacking over cards where as later bowlers would have more varied overs etc.

Once a bowling card has been used it cannot be used again so the bowling team have some limited choices to make and are limited to 10 overs before the cards can be reused again.

The batting team would also have a set of 10 cards for each of the batsmen currently at the crease. These cards would describe the batsmans plan of how he intends to approach each over and would describe:

Attacking over – Defensive over – Slog over – Quick runs over etc. etc.

Again the batting characteristics can be varied per the type of batsmen, higher order batsmen having more attacking over cards etc.

Once a batting card has been used it can't be used again as per the bowlers unless all 10 cards have been used and the batsman hasn't lost his wicket, in which case the cards are reused again.

Each over the fielding and batting team choose a card and reveal it. The players then look up on a set of tables what the likely outcome of the two particular cards being played would be. There would be a set of let's say 6 likely outcomes and a dice is rolled to see which outcome actually happens.

So for example the bowler picks the 'varied over' card and the batsman picks a 'slog over' card.
The table states that the following 6 results are possible:

D1 - 10 runs no wicket
D2 - 12 runs no wicket
D3 - 12 runs no wicket
D4 - 14 runs no wicket
D5 - 16 runs 1 wicket
D6 - 14 runs 1 wicket

A dice is rolled with the value 5 and 16 runs are added to the scoreboard for the loss of 1 wicket.

Using this method you could play a lot of overs fairly quickly although a five day test match would still take a considerable amount of time to play!

This method does have a degree of luck but still some strategy, especially as the bowler gets to the end of his overs and the batsmen have a better idea of what the bowler will bowl.

Just a thought?

Oh, by the way, C'MON ENGLAND!!!!!
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Philip Homatidis
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You may be looking at the wrong type of sport for inspiration. How about something similar to a racing game with so many runs/laps until something happens? I am thinking stock car racing, for example, due to its many laps.
Assume that it is a card game (you could do something else of course). Each player gets a hand size depending upon the skill of the batsmen or the bowlers. The player, who is bowling, lays down six cards face down (plus possible modifier cards) to simulate an Over. The opponent lays down cards next to each of the bowler's cards and then the cards are revealed to determine how many runs (or outs) were scored in that Over. There could be a mechanism which slowly reduces hand size to simulate getting tired which can be offset by weather/daylight/teatime cards (analogous to pit stops in motor racing).

Given that it is designed around Overs, you can do series, 20/20 matches and one day internationals.
 
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SAKURA in KYOTO 2018 Back to Kansai
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I was thinking of a cricket game myself, where players effectively secretly programmed their actions, then quickly resolved an over. If you spend three minutes an over, you can do a 20twenty match in 2+ hours.
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Joe Huber

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HamsterOfFury wrote:
...that wasn't ball by ball but instead focussed on the to-ing and fro-ing over the course of the sessions of play. A game where a test series could be played in 90-120 minutes and leave the players feeling like they've played what feels like an approximation of a cricket test series.

Anyone else wish the same?


No, though I'd love to try such a game.

Quote:
Oh how I would love to sort out a Test Series game or at least a Cricket World Cup game.......


Hmmm...

Some random thoughts (from someone who knows very little about cricket):

* For a 90-120 minute playing time, each inning would need to run 20-30 minutes.

* As you note, ball-by-ball doesn't work. But I think the suggestion of over-by-over is a fine one, as that allows you to look at different bowlers and bring that element in. But really, as you note - the variable elements of the game aren't nicely broken up, as they are in other sports. But I do wonder if you can have an interrupt-driven result? For example, given a pair of batters, a bowler, and a defensive alignment, you get a result - either the end of the over (and the number of runs scored) or the loss of a wicket (with some number of runs scored).

At the level of abstraction where I understand the game, it seems a solvable problem...
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Eddy Richards
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Armchair Cricket does a pretty good job of the ball-by-ball approach, and allows for building up pressure by a bowler, shot selection by batsmen (reacting to the ball bowled), the level of risk they are prepared to take to score runs. It works best for limited overs games, probably 20 overs as teams are quite often all out in that time anyway. What it doesn't do, except to a very limited extent with batting prowess, is differentiate between the players, every bowler is exactly the same.

You couldn't use it for a test match though, 450 overs worth would bore the pants off anyone and whilst that is often the fate of a cricket fan it's less usual when there is play going on!
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Eric Dodd
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I used to play a percentage-dice based system, with rolls for bowling and batting and different stats for the bowlers and batsmen i.e. a good batter was 03% chance of possibly being out per ball, and 30% chance of scoring a run. The bowlers had a modifier for chnace of wickets and of giving up runs. Both of these things were modified by pitch conditions, time of day and the decisions the two sides made on whether to be attacking or defensive. It was really a time waster rather than a game, but I did play full Tests with it and got some interesting results.

I also used to play Test Match Cricket for the ZX Spectrum, where your only options were picking a team, deciding who was bowling and as a batsman deciding to run or not. Agaian, onlt for the true fanatic, but quite realistic.

I do like the idea of a Euro 15 actions per game Cricket match. It could be tough to work out a good system for two players. Would you each have your own deck of tiles, with some variable ones turned up depending on the conditions/country/strength of the teams? Or would a shared pool of cards be better? Or individual Country packs, so you can sell expansions?

For a World Cup, a good model might be The World Cup Game, which spreads the risk of a player over a number of teams to give good variability with enough control to make an interesting game.
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Neil Henning
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Isn't cricket boring enough. A board game based on cricket should last a minimum of 5 hours.
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To quote a trivia fact:

"Graham Yallop, in 1978 was the first man to wear a helmet!"

These guys have balls! I wouldn't face a fast painful ball hurling at me at breakneck speeds without a helmet. I like my facial features. One day matches are pretty cool! It is also a game of endurance.


Vikingwarrior wrote:
Isn't cricket boring enough. A board game based on cricket should last a minimum of 5 hours.
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Gordon Walsh
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Vikingwarrior wrote:
Isn't cricket boring enough. A board game based on cricket should last a minimum of 5 hours.


No game on earth is more boring than Gridiron. I love the impact and energy of the game. But each play lasts 5 seconds or less and is followed by abouut 5 minutes of advertising. If you can tolerate that you owe it to yourself to watch a 50 overs match of cricket. It may even enthuse you enough to watch the ebb & flow of a full test match.

And if Gridiron wasn't bad enough there's Basketball and Baseball where you end up watching more adverts than gaming. If I loved advertising that much I'd hook up to infomercial channels 24/7. Cricket is boring? You Americans have a lot to learn!
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Tim K
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I got pretty close to simulating test match cricket with a marble pin ball game. Basically a total test match would last around 60 marbles total. Each time a marble fell to the bottom of the scoring area it was considered a wicket. It seemed to work out quite well that you would end up with a cricket innings score after 10 wickets has fallen. The clever simulation part of it was that towards the end of the game you would have to declare (at say only 5 out) to give yourself enough time for the opposition to hopefully lose 10 wickets before they reached the total that you had set them. While it was essentially a lot of luck as to where the balls landed and what score you got the decision of when to declare was very realistic. It made for quite an enjoyable 20 minute game.
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Andy Leighton
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Personally real cricket means test matches.

For those Americans reading - a test match is 5 days. Each day there are 90 overs scheduled to be bowled. Each over is 6 balls. If time is lost for bad light / rain they can make it up on subsequent days.

Even choosing the over as the unit to model on means a possible 450 'events' which seems to big.

As some have said sessions (or split a session into 3 blocks of 10 overs) seem a better bet in terms of size.

I think that 10 over blocks are also a good fit for light and rain delays.

Weather conditions (sunny / overcast etc) need to somehow be involved - it is usually important as to whether you bat or bowl first.

Pitch condition also need to be handled. In the test-match just gone no-one would have imagined that the pitch would get that much better from day 3 onwards. There have also been other matches were pitches have fell apart and everything in-between.

As we are simulating at a much higher level than ball-by-ball (much higher than single players too - which is a pity) both batting and fielding side could set out whether they were playing defensively or aggressively or neutrally in each 10-over block - which would affect how likely runs and wickets are.
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Eddy Richards
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Also for any non-cricket aware readers (or Americans as we sometimes fondly call them whistle), scores are in the region of 300 per innings. In the most recently completed test England scored 260 all out, Oz replied with 481, then, under some pressure England racked up 517 for 1 wicket, with one batsmen scoring 235 runs himself. England then generously let Australia have another bat, they managed 107 for 1 wicket before they ran out of time and the game was draw. In other words, 1500 odd runs were scored without a result after 5 days! Now, this was an unusally high second innings score by the visitors, but whatever system is invented would have to allow for this sort of (non) result. And if it were part of a series, some way of including the psychological effects of the result - the general concensus is that England take a large boost from it - would be good.
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Luke Morris
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3 blocks per session is absolutely the best. That's 9 blocks "per day" so 45 blocks for a test, which is ten times quicker than using overs.


I'm thinking about the focus being on the balance of play. Yes test matches are absolutely about scores and individual performances but there is always much talk about how "that session belonged to England" or "after tea it was all Australia".
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Luke Morris
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Ed_the_Red wrote:
Also for any non-cricket aware readers (or Americans as we sometimes fondly call them whistle), scores are in the region of 300 per innings. In the most recently completed test England scored 260 all out, Oz replied with 481, then, under some pressure England racked up 517 for 1 wicket, with one batsmen scoring 235 runs himself. England then generously let Australia have another bat, they managed 107 for 1 wicket before they ran out of time and the game was draw. In other words, 1500 odd runs were scored without a result after 5 days! Now, this was an unusally high second innings score by the visitors, but whatever system is invented would have to allow for this sort of (non) result. And if it were part of a series, some way of including the psychological effects of the result - the general concensus is that England take a large boost from it - would be good.




I'm thinking about giving base abilities but putting a big importance on form, confidence and tiredness. The Form and confidence would leak over into subsequent matches to some extent.
Add to that weather conditions and pitch conditions and I think that there could be a lot of depth but could be carried out relatively lightly if balanced well.
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ɹǝsɐɹɟ
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Back in the days when there were less maps we played every map back to back
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Ooh a little higher, now a bit to the left, a little more, a little more, just a bit more. Oooh yes, that's the spot!
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A test match in 90-120 minutes. You're one of them Civ Lite people aren't you? ninja

Trying to distil five days of combat, strategy and tactics into less than two hours...

P.S. Your boys are doing a tad too well in the current test.
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Luke Morris
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Karlsen wrote:
A test match in 90-120 minutes. You're one of them Civ Lite people aren't you? ninja

Trying to distil five days of combat, strategy and tactics into less than two hours...

P.S. Your boys are doing a tad too well in the current test.




I think our first innings was probably a blip. This series could go five days every test and could easily end up with 3 or 4 draws.


While I love the thought of a meaty cricket game, I never EVER have the chance to play one. No point designing a game on a topic you love if you never get to play it. I'm willing to sacrifice some depth in order to make a game playable.
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SAKURA in KYOTO 2018 Back to Kansai
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I am more interested in the duel between bowler and batter. I see momentum as being important, with the fielding side applying pressure in bouts, and wickets putting the incoming player at a severe disadvantage. But when the batter gets its eye in, the balance moves back and then the batter starts punishing the bowling.

What I need is a comparison of balls against strikes. I had a matrix planned out but I can't find it just now. I need to fill it with probable results. Essentially, balls are delivered short/med/long and left/centre/right track, roughly 9 positions (Swing can wait for now). The shots will be for example cut, drive, block and so on. So how does each shot trend against each delivery? If the shot is short/left, will a drive trend to 2runs/4runs/out ? So out of 6 chances say, ignoring other factors would it likely be 2r/2r/4r/4r/4r/out or 2r/4r/out/out/out/out ?

So I need to get these matrices filled out before I can develop the rest of the game, since they underpin the mechanism. But I don't know enough cricket, nor can find a useful reference source.
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Luke Morris
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The mechanic I used for my baseball game Baseball Heroes could basically be rethemed to show the duel between the batsman and the bowler. Baseball heroes is free to pnp so check that out because a retheme would be EAAAAAAAAAAAAASY for a blow by blow 20/20 game.
 
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