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Subject: No more Troll and Toad for me rss

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Mark Fefer
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I've decided to order Hamburgum board game from the Troll and Toad website. The price of this game was $38.95
Shipping via Fedex International Priority for this item only: $32.57
I tried to add Forbidden Island game to this order and checked how much the shipping will be increased. It turns out that this game adds only about $5 to shipping so the total shipping for both is $37.82.

Finally I've ordered the following:

1 Hamburgum Board Game $38.95
1 Forbidden Island Card Game $9.99
Product Sub Total: $48.94
Shipping: $37.82
Grand Total: $86.76
------------------------------------------

My order arrived but only one of both items was in the box. Instead of Hamburgum board game I received a purple paper with it saying that the item was missing (When I bought it 2 of them were in stock!).

I received from T&T the refund for the Hamburgum game itself $38.95 and only $11.72 shipping instead of $32.57. According T&T customer service the shipping for the second item only via Fedex is $26.02 so they refunded me $37.82 – $26.02 = $11.72.
But the problem is that the shipping for the Forbidden Island game added only $5 to the shipping costs if I order it with the Hamburgum. The T&T customer service didn't inform me about the missing item before the shipping and didn't ask me if I want to get only one of them.

If I was aware of the missing item I would not want to get the other and prefer to cancel my order. I've ordered the both items together (and not one of them) because of low shipping cost for the second item.
Unfortunately from now T&T customer service ignores any my emails with a questions and requests regarding to refund additional $20.85.

This is my second time them sent me the order with the missing item.
Many mistakes, terrible service… NO MORE TROLL AND TOAD!


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Nadav Abramovitz
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Re: No more Troll and Toad
I'm sorry for your troubles Mark. I read quite a lot of negative opinions about T&T everywhere I go, that I myself have so far preferred to avoid them.

One thing I have to ask though is: how did the FedEx shipping go? it seems rather cheap for FedEx. Was it the usual 2 days delivery, and did they charge you anything additional?
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Mark Fefer
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Re: No more Troll and Toad
Regarding to your questions about FedEx:
It seems rather cheap but that's a price. You are welcome to check it by using shipping calculator in the website.
They didn't charge anything additional, just pay attention you select FedEx Economy and not Priority! (It's important)
Delivery in this case takes about 4-5 days.
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Re: No more Troll and Toad
I've also had an experience with another online retailer where they shipped my order minus an out-of-stock item, and refunded me that one item, although I would not have made the order at all if that one item had not been listed as fully available.

I know that online game sales is a cutthroat business with very tight margins, but it seems to be a basic and often-ignored part of customer service to figure out what the customer wants the merchant to do if the order cannot be fulfilled as placed.
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David Hoffman
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Re: No more Troll and Toad
I'm not excusing them at all, but I did want to play devil's advocate and point out that my understanding is, if you had shipping price X for one game and then added a second game, which added shipping price Y for the second game, removing X from the order would not make the final shipping price Y.

Which is to say, the "cheaper" shipping for the second game was more-than-likely a bump up from one level of shipping to the next and not a "total" fee for shipping that game all by its lonesome. I suspect, if you added Forbidden Island to your cart and checked the shipping charges, it would be more in line with what you actually ended up paying.

But yeah. I've heard lots of stories about different online stores where they'll remove an item from the order but not alert the customer to give them the option to cancel or change the order. I prefer to think its the risk of automated ordering systems and not a human being somewhere twirling his mustache and plotting evilly to screw you on shipping.
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Re: No more Troll and Toad
I'd venture to guess that another game store may actually go so far as to contact you and let you know BEFORE shipping that a major part of your order was not going to be able to be shipped. It may be T&T policy that once you hit click, you have agreed that they are able to do such a thing as you described though, and inventory systems are not perfect.

I'd just probably go with a smaller, more personal provider in the future. My recommendation is always for Time Well Spent, TimeWellSpentGames.com Can't speak for management there, but it would more than surprise me that they would intentionally ship an incomplete order.

Others may be able to point you toward some other options as well.

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David Harvey
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Re: No more Troll and Toad
Am I missing something here?

When ordering with T&T, there is CLEARLY an option at the bottom which says something along the lines of "If you want us to not ship if there is an item missing, please tick this box" in which case they will then email you BEFORE they send your order out, that the item isn't in stock.

Sorry, but in this case it seems you were at fault in that you didn't select this option, so they sent out the order with the missing item, even though it may have been common sense to make sure with you since it is an international order.

So clearly in this case you were in the wrong. On the other hand, if you DID infact select the option for it not to ship with items missing, then I retract everything I just said.
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Re: No more Troll and Toad
Tooooon wrote:
Am I missing something here?

When ordering with T&T, there is CLEARLY an option at the bottom which says something along the lines of "If you want us to not ship if there is an item missing, please tick this box" in which case they will then email you BEFORE they send your order out, that the item isn't in stock.

Sorry, but in this case it seems you were at fault in that you didn't select this option, so they sent out the order with the missing item, even though it may have been common sense to make sure with you since it is an international order.

So clearly in this case you were in the wrong. On the other hand, if you DID infact select the option for it not to ship with items missing, then I retract everything I just said.


You do realize that Troll and Toad takes your money either way right? I had to wait two weeks for a refund for a game they didn't send, and was supposedly in stock. It's not supposed to work this way. They shouldn't get to charge your card, and make you wait for a refund, when they don't have the item in stock. I really can't believe you're defending them, their business practices are abhorrent.
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Justin Hoffman
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Re: No more Troll and Toad
Zaphod wrote:

You do realize that Troll and Toad takes your money either way right? I had to wait two weeks for a refund for a game they didn't send, and was supposedly in stock. It's not supposed to work this way. They shouldn't get to charge your card, and make you wait for a refund, when they don't have the item in stock. I really can't believe you're defending them, their business practices are abhorrent.


I've yet to see a retailer that doesn't charge my card as soon as the order is placed--as soon as you get that confirmation screen, your card has been charged. Undoing a mistaken charge, on the other hand, even with so-called "excellent service" retailers (Thoughthammer, Boards & Bits, Wargame Depot) can become a painful affair because rarely do those charge-backs post anywhere as quickly as the initial hold/charge.

Not defending T&T's subsequent behavior but if the inventory software shows stock, the order will go through with no problem. Had this exact problem with Coolstuff a couple of times--my card was charged but the box comes later with a note saying there was a problem with their inventory maintenance. In one case, I found out simply because I had a refund magically appear in my account; the 2nd time, I had to contact them to get the refund.

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David Harvey
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Re: No more Troll and Toad
Zaphod wrote:
Snip
What board game website can you order from which doesn't charge your credit card, or deduct money from you, as soon as you make the order?

Refering to you waiting 2 weeks for a refund for a game they didn't send, did they send the rest of your order with the item missing, or did you order just one things which they didn't have and didn't send? I only ask because I made an order with them which lacked some items, and since I had selected the option for it not to be sent if it wasn't complete I recieved an email after a few days asking me what I would like them to do BEFORE they sent it, and then gave me a refund the next day (but they didn't refund the shipping costs, which luckily in my case was extremely small, but something that they should have done though). Also, if the former, did you actually select them to hold your order if it wasn't complete?

I'm defending them because they seem to be the "monopoly" of board gaming retailers, aka people hate them for the SAKE for hating them. And while people post good experiences with them, people tend to ignore them over everyone making a brand new thread for each problem they experience with Troll and Toad.

Now as i've said before multiple times now, TrollandToads stock levels are incorrect and completely ridiculess, and the entire system needs an overhaul. But guess what, they are currently looking for a web designer to redesign the site, with particular focus on having accurate stock levels as stated in the job section of their website. So it's not like T&T don't KNOW that their stock levels are dire, heck no retailer, especially one focused at a niche hobby market, wants negetive feedback, so they are actually trying to fix the problem.

Now lets ignore that I myself have had a overall positive experience with T&T, especially on the customer service side. If the OP of this topic or yourself didn't check for your order to be held if it wasn't complete, then it is NOT T&T's fault that they sent the order out and it wasn't complete. If Boards n Bits, or Coolstuff had a checkbox at the end of its order page saying "Check this if you want your order to be held if not complete" and you didn't check it and they sent out missing items, i'm damn sure that people would forgive them moreso than they ever would T&T because of all the hate topics surrounding them.

Like I said, T&T's stock levels are TERRIBLELY inaccurate, and at worst, downright lies, and needs to be changed. But people who choose to shop at T&T who know of them through topics should know that their stock levels suck, and if you know this and you STILL don't check the box for them to hold your order if its not complete, then thats just plain stupidity imo.

All that said, Troll and Toad should refund you immediately if they send out your order with something missing, the value of the missing items including the reduced P&P costs.

p.s. Man, sorry for the wordy response Didn't mean it to be THAT much! lol
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Alan Reeve
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Re: No more Troll and Toad
The title on this thread should be changed... I thought Troll & Toad was going out of business. Perhaps "No More Troll & Toad For Me" would be more accurate.
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Re: No more Troll and Toad
Tooooon wrote:
Zaphod wrote:
Snip
What board game website can you order from which doesn't charge your credit card, or deduct money from you, as soon as you make the order?



My point is- other websites charge you immediately, but you actually get the items you ordered. With troll and toad you get charged immediately, and then play the "just kidding this is not in stock" game. So it doesn't matter if they ship right away or not. They still take your money then sort it out later. If you're on a budget, that's money that you can't use the $$$ to buy games from a company which actually has the item in stock.

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Re: No more Troll and Toad
Tooooon wrote:
If the OP of this topic or yourself didn't check for your order to be held if it wasn't complete, then it is NOT T&T's fault that they sent the order out and it wasn't complete.


Don't know if the OP checked the box or not. But my gut instinct is that basic common sense and customer service would regardless prompt an email query anyway if the primary item on an order was out of stock and that the cost of shipping the sole remaining item would be twice that item's cost.

The same order that most people would dimiss as "ship it anyway" if sent domestically takes on a different scale when shipped at international rates. Not every order can or should be given the fine tooth comb treatment like that. But at a certain level things just can't help but stand out to anyone paying the slightest bit of attention - like a $40 item missing for a $50 order, with a $25 shipping charge on the remaining $10 item. At that level of obvious, stopping the assembly line just makes common sense.

As for T&T's overall level of service, I've done a large amount of business with many different online game sellers over the years. Thought Hammer, Boards&Bits, Game Surplus, Time Well Spent, Boulder Games, Cool Stuff Inc, Cardhaus, Funagain. At one time or another most have delayed shipments for items that were not in stock by an expected time (or when ordered). But only one vendor has more than once shipped orders to me with the wrong items substituted for the correct (and as it happens, more valuable) items, and then issued a refund (partial on shipping, of course) rather than send the correct items. And that is Troll and Toad.

They haven't ripped me off - paying a higher per item shipping charge because I effectively end up getting a smaller order is a different issue - so I don't totally discount doing business with them. Because I'm patient enough to accept longer delays in getting an item and possible hassles with subpar service to at least check their price point. But given the repeated problems, and the extreme infrequency at which one of the other online vendors doesn't readily match or beat their prices anyway, I find myself doing little business with them and have scant motivation to do otherwise.
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Patrick C.
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Re: No more Troll and Toad
Quote:
What board game website can you order from which doesn't charge your credit card, or deduct money from you, as soon as you make the order?


I don't know about game retailers, but for online sales in general this is considered a no-no!

I know that Amazon doesn't do this and they enforce the same rule for all 3rd party sellers who use their site. You don't get charged until the item is confirmed as "shipped."

If online game retailers are going against the grain like this I guess I'll be careful about who I give my money to. I hadn't ordered from T&T yet, but I've had about a $90 order sitting in my cart for a week or so and was getting ready to pull the trigger. I'll stick with B&B or MM (both of which I've used) if they pull these kinds of stunts on a regular basis.

I reward retailers that treat their customers right. When I ordered a game from B&B that was described incorrectly (they said they had one edition and actually had another) I asked them to match the lowest price on Amazon (several dollars less) and they did it immediately and issued me a refund. Since that snafu I've spent almost $400 at their site and have been very pleased.
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Re: No more Troll and Toad
adreeve wrote:
The title on this thread should be changed... I thought Troll & Toad was going out of business. Perhaps "No More Troll & Toad For Me" would be more accurate.

That's exactly what I thought too.
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Re: No more Troll and Toad
dogmatix wrote:
Undoing a mistaken charge, on the other hand, even with so-called "excellent service" retailers (Thoughthammer, Boards & Bits, Wargame Depot) can become a painful affair because rarely do those charge-backs post anywhere as quickly as the initial hold/charge.


The vast majority of the time returns take so long are because of your bank or credit card company. I work in retail and we get at least a call a day about someone who came in and returned something to a card a couple days before and still hasn't seen the funds posted back. By that point, we've done our part, the bank is the one causing the delay. In many cases you shouldn't expect to see money back on your card for about a week. I'm sure T&T probably did sit around a while before getting around to your return, but the 2 weeks isn't all their fault.
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Re: No more Troll and Toad
Added to OLGS geeklist:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/listitem/983954?commentid=18184...
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Re: No more Troll and Toad
I agree that they should have the courtesy of notifying you that the item is out of stock. You ordered an item, it no longer is available, its not what you ordered and PAID for.

E-mail or call the customer.

Unfortunately I have bought many, many games all from many different stores on-line and FLGS and B&M.

I stick with Coolstuffinc and B&B. Have had issues but they have always been satisfactorily resolved. But the majority of the time no issues.
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Mark Fefer
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adreeve wrote:
The title on this thread should be changed... I thought Troll & Toad was going out of business. Perhaps "No More Troll & Toad For Me" would be more accurate.


Changed.
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Tooooon wrote:
When ordering with T&T, there is CLEARLY an option at the bottom which says something along the lines of "If you want us to not ship if there is an item missing, please tick this box" in which case they will then email you BEFORE they send your order out, that the item isn't in stock.


You have to be kidding me! As if that's not a "red flag" right there? I have nothing personal against T&T, but to me, that's a pretty good indication they've learned to expect to have problems with online orders, as it's clearly been contrived as a means to cover themselves when things go wrong, as in, "Oh, terribly sorry, there is a box you could have checked.."

They might as well ask, "If you don't want to get totally ripped off by our ridiculously high prices, extortionate shipping charges, and inept shipping department, please tick this box."
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Mark Fefer
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Tooooon wrote:
Am I missing something here?

When ordering with T&T, there is CLEARLY an option at the bottom which says something along the lines of "If you want us to not ship if there is an item missing, please tick this box" in which case they will then email you BEFORE they send your order out, that the item isn't in stock.

Sorry, but in this case it seems you were at fault in that you didn't select this option, so they sent out the order with the missing item, even though it may have been common sense to make sure with you since it is an international order.

So clearly in this case you were in the wrong. On the other hand, if you DID infact select the option for it not to ship with items missing, then I retract everything I just said.


First of all I was not aware of this option. But is it make sense to select this option when the both items were supposedly in stock?
I think that it's make sense only if one of items is out of stock or in pre-order status.

 
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Mark Fefer
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jmduran wrote:
I agree that they should have the courtesy of notifying you that the item is out of stock. You ordered an item, it no longer is available, its not what you ordered and PAID for.

E-mail or call the customer.

Unfortunately I have bought many, many games all from many different stores on-line and FLGS and B&M.

I stick with Coolstuffinc and B&B. Have had issues but they have always been satisfactorily resolved. But the majority of the time no issues.



I mostly order from Coolstuffinc too. No issues.
 
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gamesterinns wrote:
Tooooon wrote:
When ordering with T&T, there is CLEARLY an option at the bottom which says something along the lines of "If you want us to not ship if there is an item missing, please tick this box" in which case they will then email you BEFORE they send your order out, that the item isn't in stock.


You have to be kidding me! As if that's not a "red flag" right there? I have nothing personal against T&T, but to me, that's a pretty good indication they've learned to expect to have problems with online orders, as it's clearly been contrived as a means to cover themselves when things go wrong, as in, "Oh, terribly sorry, there is a box you could have checked.."

They might as well ask, "If you don't want to get totally ripped off by our ridiculously high prices, extortionate shipping charges, and inept shipping department, please tick this box."


Maybe instead they should add a check box that reads: "I wish to absolve myself of all personal responsibility, ignore my duty to due diligence and for Troll and Toad to make policy exceptions just for me."

This is a shared blame situation. Sounds like that check box wasn't checked, but T&T's policy isn't consumer friendly. But nobody wants to accept blame for their own actions these days. So blame the other party.
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Mark Fefer
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J.L.Robert wrote:
gamesterinns wrote:
Tooooon wrote:
When ordering with T&T, there is CLEARLY an option at the bottom which says something along the lines of "If you want us to not ship if there is an item missing, please tick this box" in which case they will then email you BEFORE they send your order out, that the item isn't in stock.


You have to be kidding me! As if that's not a "red flag" right there? I have nothing personal against T&T, but to me, that's a pretty good indication they've learned to expect to have problems with online orders, as it's clearly been contrived as a means to cover themselves when things go wrong, as in, "Oh, terribly sorry, there is a box you could have checked.."

They might as well ask, "If you don't want to get totally ripped off by our ridiculously high prices, extortionate shipping charges, and inept shipping department, please tick this box."


Maybe instead they should add a check box that reads: "I wish to absolve myself of all personal responsibility, ignore my duty to due diligence and for Troll and Toad to make policy exceptions just for me."

This is a shared blame situation. Sounds like that check box wasn't checked, but T&T's policy isn't consumer friendly. But nobody wants to accept blame for their own actions these days. So blame the other party.


OK, but is it make sense to select this option when the both items were supposedly in stock?
How could I even think that one of the items not found when the both were in stock according to the web site?
 
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Nadav Abramovitz
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I would just like to point out that hearing about the cheap FedEx shipping at T&T and wanting to see for myself if they are really that bad, I placed an order there for Conflict of Heroes: Price of Honour. And it went smoothly.

Item was shipped quickly, and there were no hassles on T&T's part.

Of course this doesn't mean they don't cause other people trouble, some/most/all of the time.
 
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