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Subject: 2 basic rules-questions rss

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Lars Vogt

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We just have finished our second game (4 players)and all 4 of us REALLY enjoyed it very much!

However, although most of the rules are pretty clear, 2 questions came up that we could not answered by looking in the rules. The answers might be obvious but we just don't get them.

1) I activate a system that contains two neutral planets. Then I move a carrier together with two ground forces from an adjecent system into the activated system. Is it now possible to land a ground force on each of the two planets during planetary landing although they are both on the same single carrier or would I have had to moved in with two carriers, each carrying at least one ground force, to be able to claim the possession of both planets in this turn?

2) Some objective cards require conditions that might change during the game so that one could at some point meet the requirements and could qualify for the card, therewith gaining victory points, and at a later point in time conditions could change so that one does not meet the requirements any more (e.g. I own x planets outside of my home system). We played it in this way that in case you do not meet the requirements anymore, you immediately loose the respective victory point. Is this how it is intended?

We are thankful for every answer!


 
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Roland Wood
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Re:2 basic rules-questions
Lars Vogt (#460356),

I'm sure you will get someone with a photographic memory to quote you the exact reference from the rules but that isn't me. I do, however, remember distinctly reading somewhere that:

1) Planetary landings may be made to all planets in a system whether from one carrier or more. Also when a carrier picks up ground forces in a system it may do so from all the planets in a system. Also, as long as you have a carrier in a system, you may when you activate that system redistribute your ground forces among your planets.


2) Once you have met a condition you get the points and they cannot be lost even if later you no longer meet the requirement. However, you cannot then meet the requirements again and get more VP. Each objective can be fulfilled once by each player and once obtained it doesn't matter what happens later. (Your game with your interpretation must have been looooooooong)

I am 99% certain about this but as I said, I have no documentation. Our group loves the game too.
 
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Pierre Philippe Goyer
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Re:2 basic rules-questions
Lars Vogt (#460356),

I agree with Roliander.

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Roland Wood
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Re:2 basic rules-questions
Hmmmm.... We played it again this weekend and after carefully checking the rules and the stated and illustrated example, I must change what I said about planetary landings. You may only make a planetary landing to one planet per ship carrying ground troops. Upon a second reading it seemed pretty clear. so......choose how you wanna do it I guess.
 
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Re:2 basic rules-questions
Roliander wrote:
You may only make a planetary landing to one planet per ship carrying ground troops.


Would it be possible to provide us with a reference in the rules which suggests the above, as it would contradict the following:

On page 12 under 5) Planetary Landings, 2nd paragraph:

Quote:
If a system constains multiple planets, the active player may split any landing forces between them in any way he sees fit, but may not change his mind once the Invasion Combat step begins.


Based on the above rule, you may land units on both planets from a single ship.
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Lars Vogt

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Re:2 basic rules-questions
Lars Vogt (#460356),

Well, if the carriers belong to the landing forces, then it does not necessarily follow from the rules that you quoted that you can land on two planets with one carrier...
 
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Re:2 basic rules-questions
Lars, no specific reference is made to the number of carriers required, although a minimum of one is assumed.

Please feel free to provide a rules reference supporting the need of having more than one carrier.
 
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Roland Wood
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Re:2 basic rules-questions
Hawk (#462069),

The rule we found was on page 27. It is ambiguous so it is open to interpretation. The rule is in the Ground Force Unit section and says,

"..a Carrier unit may move directly onto any friendly, hostile, or neutral planet in the same system"

We thought it interesting that with dual planet systems the rules would use the singular form of the word planet.

Added to that is the illustrated example on the same page which shows a carrier picking up units from multiple planets but when arriving to a two-planet system it only lands its forces on one.

Our group decided to change to this interpretation and while dubious at first (since it is more limiting) we found that we liked it. But as I said, it is ambiguous so try it sometime and see if it chafes or liberates....
 
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Re:2 basic rules-questions
Roliander wrote:
The rule we found was on page 27. It is ambiguous so it is open to interpretation. The rule is in the Ground Force Unit section and says,
Quote:
During the Planetary Landings step of the Activation Sequence, Ground Forces on a Carrier unit may move directly onto any friendly, hostile, or neutral planet in the same system

We thought it interesting that with dual planet systems the rules would use the singular form of the word planet.


Based on the title The Ground Force Unit, the rule (context) describes what can be done with a single unit, not a group of units, hence the singular form (as one cannot land a single unit on more than one planet).

The rule previously quoted from the Planetary Landings section (on page 12) is quite clear as to our being able to split any landing forces between planets in the same system.

With regards to the placement of a single unit, the emphasis is placed on the word any, as in any planet in the same system. Therefore:

- A unit can be placed on any planet in the same system.
- Other units on the carrier(s) may also be placed on any planet in the same system.
- Placement of a unit is not dependant on the placement of a previous unit (i.e. it may land on a different planet in the same system).


Should the context not be related to a single unit, then the following paragraph, located above the one quoted, would no longer make sense:
Quote:
A Carrier unit may, at any point during its movement, pick up a Ground Force unit located on a planet in that same system as the moving Carrier

Taken out of context it would mean you are only allowed to pick up a single unit from a single planet in a system the carrier moves through. I think we all agree this is not the case.


Added to that is the illustrated example on the same page which shows a carrier picking up units from multiple planets but when arriving to a two-planet system it only lands its forces on one.

It would be next to impossible to provide an illustration for every possible iteration of a rule. I agree it may have made the rule clearer had the illustration showed a ground unit landing on each planet. Unfortunately, the illustration alone cannot void the rule under the Planetary Landings section on page 12.


Our group decided to change to this interpretation and while dubious at first (since it is more limiting) we found that we liked it. But as I said, it is ambiguous so try it sometime and see if it chafes or liberates....

Indeed, everyone can play it the way they prefer. My replies were made to point out that players should be allowed to split landing forces between planets in the same system, even when using a single carrier/transport, as per the rule on page 12.

Apologies for the verbose post.
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Roland Wood
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Re:2 basic rules-questions
Quote:
Apologies for the verbose post.


Forgiven since your excellent command of bold, italics, and the color blue made it all look so pleasing to the eye. laugh

I must admit that I did not look as closely as you did nor did I cross-reference the contexts. You made a great case and I must admit that the original rule is probably as you have clarified (I'll say definitely for 2 trade goods ninja)and that our group's misinterpretation should hereafter be relegated to the status of variant.


 
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