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Subject: PNP Expansion Maps at Artscow rss

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Matt Riley
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There's currently a deal through Artscow for 3 16x20 (or 16x24) posters for $16 (USD) including shipping. So I decided to see how some of the Steam expansion maps would look. From what I have read on the BGG forums, the quality is supposed to be decent.

I found 4 maps that fit across 3 posters. I had some extra room on one so I added the Bezier Games chart and a couple tile manifests to it.

Here are the Artscow links.

Steam Umbria and Sardinia (16x24)

Steam Iowa (16x20)

Steam Scotland and extras (16x24)

The coupon code is: 3FOR1616S
With this deal you can save more than $40 over their standard prices.

I'll update this thread when I get the shipment and detail the quality of the prints.

Do you have any suggestions for other maps?
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Thomas Wegner
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Matt,

I don't want to see my work on Artscow. So would you please delete that Steam Umbria and Sardinia poster.

Thanks,
Thomas
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Hey, those are small maps. Are they essentially 2-player maps?
 
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Matt Riley
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weserkiesel wrote:
Matt,

I don't want to see my work on Artscow. So would you please delete that Steam Umbria and Sardinia poster.


I'm very sorry about that. They have been removed.

I am looking forward to playing them though
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Matt Riley
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markgravitygood wrote:
Hey, those are small maps. Are they essentially 2-player maps?


Yes, they are 2-player maps. Check out the files section of Steam for these and others.
 
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weserkiesel wrote:
Matt,

I don't want to see my work on Artscow. So would you please delete that Steam Umbria and Sardinia poster.

Thanks,
Thomas


Are you selling them somewhere else? They look pretty good.
 
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Thomas Wegner
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monteslu wrote:
weserkiesel wrote:
Matt,

I don't want to see my work on Artscow. So would you please delete that Steam Umbria and Sardinia poster.

Thanks,
Thomas


Are you selling them somewhere else? They look pretty good.



No, and that's the point. I don't want to make money with my maps, and I don't want somebody else to make money with my maps. (Whatever sort of commercial use it may be.)

Furthermore: Just because these maps are print and play and available for free, that doesn't mean there is no copyright involved. And I wasn't even asked for permission.

I hope you understand my point of view.

~Thomas

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So, if thats the case, how do you propose we print and play those maps?
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Jack Neal
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markgravitygood wrote:
So, if thats the case, how do you propose we print and play those maps?


I guess it's the old fashioned way - home printer. That's okay... copyright is a big to-do... I understand the sentiment on both sides. I'm just glad we have them to play on!
 
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weserkiesel wrote:
No, and that's the point. I don't want to make money with my maps, and I don't want somebody else to make money with my maps. (Whatever sort of commercial use it may be.)

Furthermore: Just because these maps are print and play and available for free, that doesn't mean there is no copyright involved. And I wasn't even asked for permission.

I hope you understand my point of view.

~Thomas



Obviously you have no obligation to explain yourself, and I understand completely that it's your choice, but I'd be interested in an explanation.

Are you upset at Artscow profiting from your work? Then, similarly, would you rather people don't print your map off at Staples or OfficeMax or an equivalent stationary store that offers custom print jobs?
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Raiderjakk wrote:
markgravitygood wrote:
So, if thats the case, how do you propose we print and play those maps?


I guess it's the old fashioned way - home printer. That's okay... copyright is a big to-do... I understand the sentiment on both sides. I'm just glad we have them to play on!


That's great - if you assume everyone has a color printer to print it on. Otherwise, not a real solution now, is it?
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Jack Neal
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markgravitygood wrote:
Raiderjakk wrote:
markgravitygood wrote:
So, if thats the case, how do you propose we print and play those maps?


I guess it's the old fashioned way - home printer. That's okay... copyright is a big to-do... I understand the sentiment on both sides. I'm just glad we have them to play on!


That's great - if you assume everyone has a color printer to print it on. Otherwise, not a real solution now, is it?


I don't assume that at all. But if the files are available to take somewhere to print (which I do for maps that I want to turn out extra great anyways since my color printer at home is expensive and not the best in terms of quality), I don't have a problem with making the trip out to do it.

If I understand correctly, the designer said he didn't want them publicly available on Artscow for mass consumption. I'm sure if you asked nicely, you could probably upload the file (or he could!) and do the purchase on your own.

There are always options.
 
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It seems contradictory to me. The designer wants it to be available for print and play, but if the easiest way for you to print it is Artscow, he wants to make it unavailable.
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Apparently you have to have either a color printer or the ability (mobility) to get out and get it printed yourself.

Terrific.
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Thomas Chipman
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Barticus88 wrote:
It seems contradictory to me. The designer wants it to be available for print and play, but if the easiest way for you to print it is Artscow, he wants to make it unavailable.


perhaps the designer doesn't understand the way artscow works, since he's under the impression that someone would be making money off of his work.


 
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Barticus88 wrote:
It seems contradictory to me. The designer wants it to be available for print and play, but if the easiest way for you to print it is Artscow, he wants to make it unavailable.


I'm pretty sure that the designer of the game had no idea about these maps being made available for a fee through Artscow until very, very recently. Does anyone know what Mayfair's position is? I understood that their licensing terms for Steam were very affordable/generous, but making maps available that trade on their Steam trade mark without permission might not be the best move.
 
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nunyabisnas wrote:

perhaps the designer doesn't understand the way artscow works, since he's under the impression that someone would be making money off of his work.


Someone would be. Even if that someone was only Artscow.
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Thomas Chipman
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markgravitygood wrote:
Apparently you have to have either a color printer or the ability (mobility) to get out and get it printed yourself.

Terrific.


there's nothing stopping you from uploading the images and creating the posters yourself in the same manner that the OP did. of course, all that work has already been done by the OP and he was kind enough to share the link to his gallery so that others wouldn't have to repeat the process. however, since the designer asked him to remove the link, you will now need to perform the upload/scale/order process yourself.

i can't imagine that the designer seriously intends to limit the ways in which user could print this map. nor can i imagine that he intends users to ask his permission whenever they would like to print a copy.


 
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Thomas Chipman
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RDewsbery wrote:


Someone would be. Even if that someone was only Artscow.


of course someone is making money, but the money being made is for the printing service and not the content itself.

if you print the designer's content on your home printer, someone is making money as well. the only difference is that you've already paid the money upfront when you purchased the printer, ink, paper.

the OP posted a link to his artscow gallery to make it easier for others to use that particular PoD service to print these maps. it isn't as though he set up an etsy shop where he would receive a portion of the charge whenever another user printed the maps.

regardless, it is up to the designer to decide how he'd like people to use his content. if he doesn't want it printed on matte card stock on thursdays when it is raining, or some other such nonsense, then that would totally be within his rights. i'm not arguing against his rights as the designer at all, i just can't begin to understand his logic.
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Thomas' request seems simple enough: If you'd like a copy of his maps, go print them in whatever fashion you see fit. But, please do so as a private individual and don't setup a service or other offering for others to print his maps. If other individuals want to print his maps, they may do so in the same way you may do so, by personally arranging to have a print made in whatever manner suits you.

This is neither an unreasonable or an uncommon request. Its pretty standard among fan-contributed materials.
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clearclaw wrote:
Thomas' request seems simple enough: If you'd like a copy of his maps, go print them in whatever fashion you see fit. But, please do so as a private individual and don't setup a service or other offering for others to print his maps. If other individuals want to print his maps, they may do so in the same way you may do so, by personally arranging to have a print made in whatever manner suits you.

This is neither an unreasonable or an uncommon request. Its pretty standard among fan-contributed materials.



That's exactly what I meant. Thanks JC for the clarification.

~Thomas
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weserkiesel wrote:
clearclaw wrote:
Thomas' request seems simple enough: If you'd like a copy of his maps, go print them in whatever fashion you see fit. But, please do so as a private individual and don't setup a service or other offering for others to print his maps. If other individuals want to print his maps, they may do so in the same way you may do so, by personally arranging to have a print made in whatever manner suits you.

This is neither an unreasonable or an uncommon request. Its pretty standard among fan-contributed materials.



That's exactly what I meant. Thanks JC for the clarification.

~Thomas

All clear and good -- as the designer, you certainly have the right to make this requests. But I still don't understand ... why? (And yes, of course, you are under no obligation to answer that question; but we are curious!)
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weserkiesel wrote:
clearclaw wrote:
Thomas' request seems simple enough: If you'd like a copy of his maps, go print them in whatever fashion you see fit. But, please do so as a private individual and don't setup a service or other offering for others to print his maps. If other individuals want to print his maps, they may do so in the same way you may do so, by personally arranging to have a print made in whatever manner suits you.

This is neither an unreasonable or an uncommon request. Its pretty standard among fan-contributed materials.



That's exactly what I meant. Thanks JC for the clarification.

~Thomas


Just a question. Lets say I am not very good at setting up artscow prints and would like him to do it for me would that be acceptable as I would be personally arranging to have a print made in whatever manner suits me
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markgravitygood wrote:
Apparently you have to have either a color printer or the ability (mobility) to get out and get it printed yourself.

Terrific.


It's almost Christmas... maybe someone will print one out for you? :-)
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weserkiesel wrote:
That's exactly what I meant. Thanks JC for the clarification.

Wellll.... What do you mean? It seems either you have something against Artscow, or you misunderstand what Artscow is.
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