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Subject: Comparing DT with City of Thieves: Convince me DT is a better game. rss

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Damien
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Hi all

When deciding to buy a game or not I like the “convince me” posts because you usually get both sides of the arguments. I have decided to add the comparison element because Cadwallon City of Thieves (CoT) is something I have played recently and a comparison is feasible (I think)

Bang for Buck:
Both games you definitely get bang for buck.
I picked up CoT for under $50 and you get a board, adequate cards, great miniatures (some require hot/cold treatment to fix bends), “real” (plastic) coins, good to great tokens and other plastic bits, and the illustrations in the rules/cards are fantastic.
For under $100 (online) I could buy DT and that alone would pay for the miniatures (only seen online pictures mind). You also get the great looking tank/troop cards, some nice dice, nine board segments that look OK, and some sub par terrain stuff. Component value for money – both games win, but maybe CoT is better value?

Gameplay (from the rules as read):
Both use player chooses character and move twice or move once and shoot, or shoot and move (this initially led to my comparison idea).
In CoT they use a limited number of action points before the next players turn; In DT you alternate until everyone has moved. Action Point management is neat and adds a lot to the CoT game in my view.
Combat in both is luck of the dice. In CoT character placement impacts who can attack who, who can move where; In DT you have range and cover rules.
In CoT you have random Arcana cards; In DT you have (non random) special abilities (Expansions will add more but that’s more money spent).
In CoT all characters are the same statically but each a unique special ability; In DT all tanks/troops have different stats/strengths/weaknesses and some have a special ability as already mentioned.
In CoT you get a non random but vey nice looking board that impacts tactics; In DT you get what looks like very plain boards that are then populated with tactical elements.
In CoT you get 8 adventures that change how elements of the game work which adds variety; In DT you get a scenario booklet (I haven’t seen it) I’m sure it adds variety but how much and how much requires additional purchases (can I play all 8 scenarios with the base box alone?)
In CoT you get “neutral” characters guards, NPCs, etc to mess with other players plans; In DT this element doesn’t exist (unless there is something in the scenario booklet).
In CoT you get missions which is one method (a key one) to getting money and thus winning; I assume in DT scenarios you get similar objective variety, king of the hill etc.
Both games beg for expansions but I feel DT needs expansions more to make it into a better game …
Based on the above I would think there is more gameplay in CoT over DT but assessment based on 2 plays of CoT vs. No plays of DT.

Theme and (Age) Market:
Cot is a fantasy with thieves trying to get as much loot as possible and occasionally beating someone up for their cash – no death; DT is a WWII alternative where the object is to wipe the opponent out (death), other options in combat booklet I’m sure.
CoT is more involved so pushes the minimum age up I suspect. Explaining the rules to my work colleagues you could see their eyes glazing by the end but once play had started they got it easy. DT seems simpler – wargames usually rely on tactics which makes them great if you like that kind of thing, but DT is a simpler “wargame” so does that make it not so great? This does make it more accessible to the younger market though, a 10 yo could probably manage it no probs.

I have played CoT and it was fun. I’m not convinced DT will be as much fun (maybe at first but will I tire of it after a few games?). So please dispute/agree with my view regarding DT possibly not being as great as CoT. Ratings will change on BGG and must be taken with a grain of salt but currently BGG ratings dispute my view.

PS – I am almost tempted to buy DT juts for the cool models … A game underneath may just be an added bonus.

EDIT: 2 other important factors I initially missed:

Both CoT games took us 90 mins, supposed to play in 60 mins according to other CoT forums; DT supposed to take 60 mins too.

CoT is for 2 to 4 players and I think 3 is ideal but 2 and 4 should play fine as well; DT would seem ideal for 2, doable by 4 players (2 vs. 2), and pssibly 1 vs 2. So CoT would seem to handle more players better.
 
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Jimmy
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Take my many year of gaming experience, buy whatever that interests you and enjoy it. Don't ask.
 
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Damien
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Agreed but its the usual issue with a wallet that has a bottom but can be stretched. I shouldn't be spending close to $100 given I have recently picked up CoT, CoT painted miniatures, Chaos in the Old World, Pandemic, Space Alert, Gosu, Magical Athlete, Death Angel, and probably one or two others - don't know how my wife lets me get away with it bless her
 
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K G
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I wasn't born ! I sprang from the forhead of God , as he contemplated a particularly vile joke !
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http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/582591/whew-what-a-week-...-
 
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Damien
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Hey Kris, Thanks I have read your review - twice now and it is quite comprehensive but still hasn't quite pushed me over - almost, but not quite. Glad you have found your perfect game I just need some more views on this one and I guess hence my post. My gaming at the moment is limited to buying and bringing them into work to play with colleagues. Otherwise attending a demo would be the best way sell me one way or the other.
 
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Steve R Bullock
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If you like army men and tanks, buy it.

The game will follow...
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K G
United States
albuquerque
New Mexico
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I wasn't born ! I sprang from the forhead of God , as he contemplated a particularly vile joke !
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I wasn't born , I was hatched in the deepest darkest part of the ocean , and raised by sharks !
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otaku wrote:
My gaming at the moment is limited to buying and bringing them into work to play with colleagues. Otherwise attending a demo would be the best way sell me one way or the other.


in that case , this would be an ALMOST perfect game . its fast and furious . games can be as short as 10 minutes or as long as 45 , all depending on your opponents and your play style . the game will be as simple or as complex as the effort you each put into it .

the ALMOST as for the multi player aspect , as written , they expect that if you had 2 sides , regardless of number of players per side , that each side will choose and activate one unit , then their opponent will get an activation , and you will keep trading back and forth . based on the game activation method , and my experience with this game and games like it , its kinda optimal doing it that way . though if you have more than 2 players and they each have their OWN forces playing for their own sides , it would work somewhat fine , and could even add to the complexity of the game as each person is now trying to out play and out think more than just one other person . this isnt necessarily a bad thing , but if you only get to play at work , it can be a bit of a hinderence .


but like the above guys says , if you like armymen , the game will follow
 
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Damien
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Sold! Thanks guys for the posts. I think I should have waited for more comments here but in the end reading the rules again, looking at the cool miniature images, and selling our no longer required babies cot got me over the line . It will be a 3 week wait before it arrives and probably longer before it sees play but I'll let you know my impressions. I am still concerned about the fiddly bits on the "robots", as you can possibly tell I'm not known for my patience. Anyhow, if this turns out to be a great game and this post helps others decide to buy, all the better. BTW, I definitely liked army men and tanks when I was a kid ...
 
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