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Subject: New expansion announced by FFG rss

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Jimmy
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Link: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=1836

NO NEW WALKERS!!! WTF!
 
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Kent Ing
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I hope they will have Deluxe set at the same time...crosses fingers.
 
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Jimmy
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FFG later added:"Watch for updates on Operation Cyclone in the coming weeks, including an announcement for a premium painted version. Then, be ready when the assault launches later this winter!"

I did not see this in the first two time.

 
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Peter Kraft
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This expansion looks abit slimed down compared to the rule book.
 
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Martin
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Enies wrote:
This expansion looks abit slimed down compared to the rule book.


Indeed. I wonder if FFG's plan is to sell all units in their own boxes (including upcoming artillery robots etc) and then sprinkle with some campaign boxes that contain some extra terrain and a couple of heroes now and then.

Hmm...
 
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Jimmy
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FFG is aiming to maximize the profit. If they put in everything that was posted for the orginal expansion (ie two walkers, command squards and two heros), they will have to charge more. That may be a barrier to a new player because he has to come up with the money to purchase the expensive starter set and the original expansion. By putting out the expansions in piecemeals, FFG can charge less for each but ends up with a higher percentage of the profit margins. It is also easier for any new player to purchase the starter set and the cheaper new expansion. For us who are hooked already, we'll still purchase it. FFG probably feels that it is a win-win situation and therefore do it this way. Just my two cents.
 
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K G
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wildger wrote:


" With an exciting scenario guide including eight new battles, as well as the supplemental rules for artillery, amphibious assaults, and more,"

this says to me that the walkers will be coming out within a month or 2 of the product release , otherwise they wouldnt add the artillery rules . while AEG might have bundeled alot of items into each expansion , looking at FFG's other products like tanhauser , and wings of war , etc ....... they seem to like to put as little product as possible into each expansion , and dole out everything else as individual items that they can get more money for .

i can totaly see why they do it , the one big drawback is that they also seem SLOW AS HELL in doing it , wich doesnt really get people all hyped to buy , as much as frustrated from waiting .

additionaly , waiting looking at their other products , they also seem a bit on the high priced side so that i am concerned that this may cost as mush as $40-50 for JUST this box .




i know there has been a debate about the abscence of info that FFG puts out , and i gotta chime in on the side of the people who want more info . if you look at most or all of the other BIG companies , they put out info of upcoming releases , and have articles that discus the direction they plan to take their games . they are open , and even friendly . you can see whats coming 6 months or even a year down the line , so you know what is going on , and have something to look forward to .

you can even contact them and get answers . not so much with FFG . long before the game came out , i sent FFG an email , asking some questions : what is the scale (there were conflicting mentions of the scale in several sources ) ? are the minis in the starter all plastic ? will you be doing metal minis aswell ? the response i got back a couple weeks later was that is against their policy to release information regarding their products , and that any information would have to be released through their website and forums . i actually contacted dusttactics.com and got the answers in less than 48 hours , while the only official responses we have seen in the forums was the cryptic one about good things will come .

FFG seems to treat us a little like enemies , this is a BOARD game , NOT a computer game or tech company . we are gamers , it wouldnt matter if they announced what they were doing for the next 2 years time , we cant steal their secrets and take them else where to sell to a competitor , its just not THAT kind of industry .

its not like i am saying they have to tell us EVERYTHING , but even GW (as evil and controlling as they are ) is more open and user friendly regarding the release of info on up coming products .
 
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Derek Anderson
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FFG is one of my favorite gaming company... easily on my top 5 list if not top 3.

My only disappointment with them is lack of info on what's going on with things, they are very vague and don't give out a lot of info, I suppose they are doing what they think is right and trying to protect themselves, but you have a valid point - even Games Workshop shares a ton of info compared to FFG.

D.


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James Palmer
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I don't mind an expansion like this - I just hope the price reflects the fact that there are only 2 new figures. I don't mind small expansions, as long as they come with small price tags.
 
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Jow 128
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I'd be willing to bet that it costs around thirtyish dollars, similar to some of the miniatures-lite descent expansions.

I also don't really understand the angst about a "lack of information". This game has been out since the middle of November. Since then, they've announced 6 individual unit packs(including some new content) and today a new expansion that promises lots of new content despite the lack of included miniatures. That's not too bad for a little over a month. I know we all want all the awesome content and we want it now, but that's not realistic.

My bet is that they announce the release of individual walker boxes including some variant arms/weapons in the near future.
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Derek Anderson
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I think the problem some people have is that there was a lot of info being announced by AEG, but when FFG took over it all changed and people got a taste of some good info before the switch to FFG...

D.
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K G
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Jow128 wrote:
I'd be willing to bet that it costs around thirtyish dollars, similar to some of the miniatures-lite descent expansions.

I also don't really understand the angst about a "lack of information". This game has been out since the middle of November. Since then, they've announced 6 individual unit packs(including some new content) and today a new expansion that promises lots of new content despite the lack of included miniatures. That's not too bad for a little over a month. I know we all want all the awesome content and we want it now, but that's not realistic.

My bet is that they announce the release of individual walker boxes including some variant arms/weapons in the near future.


compare the FFG website and release info with privateer press , games workshop (who even publish a magazine just to promote their games ) , or any other major game company , FFG is the equivilant of soviet era propaganda behind the iron curtain . the game is out , FFG should step in and participate , not hide and leave it to us to whisper .
 
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John D
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GrandInquisitorKris wrote:
wildger wrote:


" With an exciting scenario guide including eight new battles, as well as the supplemental rules for artillery, amphibious assaults, and more,"

this says to me that the walkers will be coming out within a month or 2 of the product release , otherwise they wouldnt add the artillery rules


How sad. You think FFG will release something early and on time.

Who else has been waiting for the Gears of War Board game since 2008?
 
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Cardboard Carnage wrote:
I think the problem some people have is that there was a lot of info being announced by AEG, but when FFG took over it all changed and people got a taste of some good info before the switch to FFG...

D.


Well FFG did put pics of new units, walkers that said "see you in artillery strike" on a page in the main book. FFG published that, implying that those would be in the expansion. Makes FFG looks like they are misleading the customers.
 
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J A
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KenM wrote:
Cardboard Carnage wrote:
I think the problem some people have is that there was a lot of info being announced by AEG, but when FFG took over it all changed and people got a taste of some good info before the switch to FFG...

D.


Well FFG did put pics of new units, walkers that said "see you in artillery strike" on a page in the main book. FFG published that, implying that those would be in the expansion. Makes FFG looks like they are misleading the customers.


And until they've released 'artillery strike' as an expansion without artillery walkers, FFG has not gone against its word.
 
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Jake Rose
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KenM wrote:
Well FFG did put pics of new units, walkers that said "see you in artillery strike" on a page in the main book. FFG published that, implying that those would be in the expansion. Makes FFG looks like they are misleading the customers.


May want to check the inside front cover of your rule book. Mine clearly has AEG on it, NOT FFG.


EDIT: Anyone else catch how FFG is taking an Axis character and turning her into an Allied one? http://www.dust-models.com/products_d.php?nid=2&id=29

Interesting...

Jake
 
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Jake Rose
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vice



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Jonathon Ebonsword
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GrandInquisitorKris wrote:
i know there has been a debate about the abscence of info that FFG puts out , and i gotta chime in on the side of the people who want more info . if you look at most or all of the other BIG companies , they put out info of upcoming releases , and have articles that discus the direction they plan to take their games . they are open , and even friendly . you can see whats coming 6 months or even a year down the line , so you know what is going on , and have something to look forward to .

you can even contact them and get answers . not so much with FFG . long before the game came out , i sent FFG an email , asking some questions : what is the scale (there were conflicting mentions of the scale in several sources ) ? are the minis in the starter all plastic ? will you be doing metal minis aswell ? the response i got back a couple weeks later was that is against their policy to release information regarding their products , and that any information would have to be released through their website and forums . i actually contacted dusttactics.com and got the answers in less than 48 hours , while the only official responses we have seen in the forums was the cryptic one about good things will come .

FFG seems to treat us a little like enemies , this is a BOARD game , NOT a computer game or tech company . we are gamers , it wouldnt matter if they announced what they were doing for the next 2 years time , we cant steal their secrets and take them else where to sell to a competitor , its just not THAT kind of industry .

its not like i am saying they have to tell us EVERYTHING , but even GW (as evil and controlling as they are ) is more open and user friendly regarding the release of info on up coming products .


Agree with you 100% on these comments. I also don't understand FFG's secretiveness.

As for the revamped "Operation Cyclone", it looks kind of "meh". The new terrain tiles will be nice, I admit, as will the new scenarios.

But I think two of DT's biggest weaknesses right now are (1) lack of unit variety and (2) lack of tactical depth. So I was *really* looking forward to the release of the command squads, which would have helped to address both those issues. Sadly, it looks like those aren't going to be included, now cry. Instead we get two new heroes? That seems to be what the game needed *least*.

Oh, and in case Paolo or Olivier happen to read this, I would totally buy a prepainted version of those landing craft shown on the Operation Cyclone box art should Dust Models decide to release it!
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Jonathon Ebonsword
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Jow128 wrote:
My bet is that they announce the release of individual walker boxes including some variant arms/weapons in the near future.


Yes, since the bodies of the different American and German walkers are identical, it seems like they could release, say, a German walker box with one body, two combat claws, two 5 cm guns, two 8.8 cm guns, and maybe even two 7.5 cm guns.

That way you could make either a Ludwig, a Luther, a Loth, or even a JagdLuther, as well as possibly some new variants (like a walker with two of the Luther's 5 cm guns). All of the necessary stat cards should, of course, also be included.
 
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CapeCod Gamer
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jakecarol wrote:
KenM wrote:
Well FFG did put pics of new units, walkers that said "see you in artillery strike" on a page in the main book. FFG published that, implying that those would be in the expansion. Makes FFG looks like they are misleading the customers.


May want to check the inside front cover of your rule book. Mine clearly has AEG on it, NOT FFG.


EDIT: Anyone else catch how FFG is taking an Axis character and turning her into an Allied one? http://www.dust-models.com/products_d.php?nid=2&id=29

Interesting...

Jake


So the Fantasy Flight logo all over the box, and where it says 'copyright Fantasy Flight Games' mean nothing? They are resposible for what goes into the games and info they put out.
 
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James Palmer
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I wonder what's on the back of the landing craft tiles. I hope it's land tiles, for larger regular maps.
 
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Jake Rose
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My box also has FFG stickers pasted over the AEG logo. I strongly suspect FFG is not responsible for the contents of the original game and AEG and the good folks at Dust Tactics get the credit. FFG did bring it to market but was not involved in product development.

I think this is why they don't feel committed to the expansions as detailed in the rule book and instead are now moving out on a different course. They are now responsible for info being put out and the continued support/expansion of the game. They obviously have a different path than the original AEG path forward.

The change of 'Bianca' to 'Rosie' is a good example of divergence from the original Dust vision. Hopefully FFG pulls it off.

A big part of me wonders if the fragility of the walkers in some way lead to the decision to re-image the expansion. It wold have been nice to get the command squads though, even if the walkers are causing them problems.

Jake
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Jow 128
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GrandInquisitorKris wrote:
compare the FFG website and release info with privateer press , games workshop (who even publish a magazine just to promote their games ) , or any other major game company , FFG is the equivilant of soviet era propaganda behind the iron curtain . the game is out , FFG should step in and participate , not hide and leave it to us to whisper .


The Game was officially released in mid November, and by Mid December they have released 6 unit boxes (AND two new unit cards) and announced an expansion that is a few months away. This for a license that they have really only controlled since this summer(IE, less than six months ago). Thats pretty good.

GW and PP really only make a few releases every month for their entire product line, and they only officially announce things in the not to distant future(most of what we know about in the "far future" is mostly from the rumor mill and "sources", not official announcements).

Also, GW really only has two core products to support and Privateer only really has one. FFG, on the other hand, has numerous licenses all competing for the same air time with probably fewer resources. They only have so much money and staff to promote and release their games with, and with so many products they are probably wise to focus on things happening sooner rather than later AND make sure that you don't set up your products to compete with themselves.

We all (myself included) want to know about all the future releases and for them to happen sooner rather than later, but thats not really realistic.
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Jow128 wrote:
The Game was officially released in mid November, and by Mid December they have released 6 unit boxes (AND two new unit cards) and announced an expansion that is a few months away. This for a license that they have really only controlled since this summer(IE, less than six months ago). Thats pretty good.


actually no , the official release was at gencon (they even had a countdown on the website to the gencon release ) , and i got my starter the last week of october . and the next product release (4 unit packs ) isnt actually "released" untill some time in january ? with 2 more some time after that .

we dont even have a post saying they are going to release the walkers from the starter , sure we acan all presume that they will , but they have announced the operation cyclone , but not the walkers so ...... .

again , we are being treated like adversaries , NOT customers .

Jow128 wrote:
GW and PP really only make a few releases every month for their entire product line, and they only officially announce things in the not to distant future(most of what we know about in the "far future" is mostly from the rumor mill and "sources", not official announcements).


and this is one of the biggest arguements AGAINST the table top version , they require different marketing and sales methods , and if they are going to stumble through the product release of the board game , adding the stress of the table top game to a company that already seems over burdened sounds risky .

add to that , FFG sent out a demo team a few years ago on a nation wide tour of major game stores , to demo some of their products . my FLGS was on the list , so i was there when they did the demos . their 2 main demo items were AT-43 , and the yet to be released mutant cronicles CMG . while i didnt like the mutant cronicles minis , the game seemed good enough , but what kept me from getting into it was listening to the demo guy telling the store owner that they had major problems with the organization for that game , and that they had just put a NEW guy in charge of the game line a couple months ago , but still had no real direction or idea what they were gonna do with it .

if they cant do the game , then DUST needs to find anoth producer who can . this isnt a regular board game where they can go a few months between releases , and figure the fan base will stay .

Jow128 wrote:
Also, GW really only has two core products to support and Privateer only really has one. FFG, on the other hand, has numerous licenses all competing for the same air time with probably fewer resources. They only have so much money and staff to promote and release their games with, and with so many products they are probably wise to focus on things happening sooner rather than later AND make sure that you don't set up your products to compete with themselves.


yes GW produces their 3 CORE products (wh40k , fantasy , and LoTR ) , BUT they also produce through their lesser entities a whole slew of other game lines that while small in audience , and BASED on the core lines , involve numerous rules sets and product releases , and are likewise part of their whole sphere or organising and info release . even if its just one of their subsidieries or licincees , they are iron fisted , and involved in all of it . weather its their arcival services , black library , or any of the others , they coordinate it all , and release info on all of it . you can even CALL them on the phone to get answers , i know , i have done it before .

PP actually has 3 lines (hoards , warmachine , and monsterpocalypse ) and are even going into the RPG market , and while some of them may be related products , like above , they put alot of effort into it and release alot of info .

all this while i couldnt even get FFG to answer 3 simple questions that had nothing to do with the game mechanics or anything other than material and scale .


while alot of the info gamers may get about GW and others comes from unofficial sources most of it comes true , and alot also comes from interviews done months in advance . great example last year PP announced for their monpoc line that they had gotten the lic for voltron , and that it would be released this year some time around summer , guess what , IT HAPPENED .

as it is , we can look at alot of the interviews from parente , and they are out the window , nothing he said in any of them apply any more since FFG has gone on its merry little way hiding every thing , and the FFG interviews seem few , far between , and to contain nothing of substance .

while i understand having limited funds , this is not like all their other lines , they cant really "realisticaly" treat it the same . they need to get a clue and understand that , or sell the rights to another company that does .

we have seen in pictures that the figs for alot of the other expansions already exist , this is all about corporate marketing decisions , not production delays .

as PP , GW , and other companies take on new product lines and create new divisions , they hire new staff to make sure those products are properly looked after and things run smoothly .

Jow128 wrote:
We all (myself included) want to know about all the future releases and for them to happen sooner rather than later, but thats not really realistic.


and niether is treating dust like all their other board games , its just not the same .

look at their forums , and see how many time the questions are answered by players , and how few times FFG has said ANYTHING





and i was right $40 : http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite_sec.asp?eidm...
 
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Jow 128
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We can probably debate the semantic difference for what a core game is, but:
-LotR and MonPoc have significantly less resources spent on their dev, smaller releases, a fraction of the player base, and far less support. Most do not view them as core games. MonPoc doesn't even have its own forum on PP's website. GW's other games are attatched to their specialist games line, and having been a part of that horrid tangle of poo, I can tell you they do spend much on developing those lines or supporting the games. Most specialist games are now fan supported, for better or worse.

-Hordes and Warmachine are essentially the same game, with Hordes being an "expansion" to warmachine. Their releases supplement each other instead of competing with one another because players can play with either one they choose. Thus why most view it as one and the same typically refered to as"warmahordes."

-Privateers "adventure" into RPGs has at this point been limited to a really old(IE, older than Warmachine)DnD book with a few supplementary books. The only new content to come out in a long while is a recent campaign book (which saddens me because I love the setting). There has been a little sidetalk about a possible proprietary RPG in the works in the future, but nothing concrete has been released. So likely far future.

My point for going into this is that these are the industry's giants at the moment. Even they have a somewhat limited release schedule. The only thing we know about the future of Warmachine is their next release called Wrath, and a few of the warcasters in it have been "leaked," but not officially commented about. Similarly for GW, they really only offically comment on releases in the near future (1-2 months), the rest being scuttlebut from industry "insiders" who give some glimmer of info about things happening in the midterm future(yearish). There are typically very few major releases every year.

Is that so much less than we have with FFG, a company with seemingly fewer resources to cover a larger product base? So far we know that there will be an expansion in the short term, with articles on both Paolo's and FFG's website as support. For the mid to long term, we have "industry rumor" on forums like Dakka Dakka, Warseer and Bell of Lost Souls saying that the walkers, command squads, and variants will be released sometime next year. It seems awfully similar to me.

There could also be any number of monkey wrenches thrown in the process that would delay an announcement or release, or make it somewhat smaller. Maybe the initial box sets from AEG were commisioned at a somewhat unsustainable price point that FFG is trying to find a solution for, like smaller individual releases? That is what happened with Battlelore when FFG acquired their rights. Maybe some of the initial product was of a poor quality, and had to be delayed? That somewhat happened with WFRP, and FFg had to incur extra cost replacing the dice included in the sets. FFG would not be able to comment on these issues as they affect consumer and (very importantly) investor/stock holder confidence.

The reality is that there will likely be two-ish major releases per year for Dust (Expansion size) with the rest being smaller releases like unit packs, new heroes, or variants. We will likely find out about these releases officially a month or two in advance, and "hear" about others from insiders or rumor. If that upsets you, then I'm sorry to say it likely won't change.
 
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