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Subject: Visible Guilds rss

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Ian Toltz
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An idea I had was that, rather than shuffling the chosen guilds into the third deck right away, you set them out face up so people know which guilds are going to be coming up.
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Kwang Il Kim
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Asmor wrote:
An idea I had was that, rather than shuffling the chosen guilds into the third deck right away, you set them out face up so people know which guilds are going to be coming up.


All players in 7 Wonders take their turns simultaneously.
So there is a problem for simultaneity.

If two or more players want to take the same guild card at the same time,
who gets it?
 
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skeil wrote:
If two or more players want to take the same guild card at the same time, who gets it?

The way I read the question, he's suggesting that they stay face-up for people to know they'll become available, but still shuffled into the deck for Age III.

Personally, I wouldn't want to play this way. One of the things I like about the game is the mild uncertainty on which cards you will get, and how it ties in with your overall strategy. But I suppose if people wanted to play that way, nothing is stopping them from doing so.
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Kwang Il Kim
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Verkisto wrote:
skeil wrote:
If two or more players want to take the same guild card at the same time, who gets it?

The way I read the question, he's suggesting that they stay face-up for people to know they'll become available, but still shuffled into the deck for Age III.

Personally, I wouldn't want to play this way. One of the things I like about the game is the mild uncertainty on which cards you will get, and how it ties in with your overall strategy. But I suppose if people wanted to play that way, nothing is stopping them from doing so.



Ah, I misunderstood it.
Thanks for helping me understand it!
 
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Ian Toltz
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Ah, yes, sorry, I meant that the guilds will be shuffled into the deck in the 3rd age. The idea is that people can see what guilds are available, and be able to use that information.

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Kwang Il Kim
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The reason why I like the card-drafting system is that it reduces luck for cards dealt to players.
If players can see the front side of cards, then they will have a hint for the other cards.
It may be less fun and less exciting for uncertainty of cards from other players' hands.
 
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The problem with the guilds is, as someone pointed out in another thread, is you don't get them till the end of the game, so you can't build a strategy around them, because you don't know if you'll get a particular one.

They remind me of the 6-cost buildings in Puerto Rico/San Juan/Race for the Galaxy in this respect.
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manukajoe wrote:
The problem with the guilds is, as someone pointed out in another thread, is you don't get them till the end of the game, so you can't build a strategy around them, because you don't know if you'll get a particular one.


How would one build a strategy around them anyway? I can see you plotting for the Shipowners Guild, but that's about it. The rest are dependent on your neighbors. That being the case, I think seeing them ahead of time is a bad idea or at the very least a pointless one.
 
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Trump wrote:
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manukajoe wrote:
The problem with the guilds is, as someone pointed out in another thread, is you don't get them till the end of the game, so you can't build a strategy around them, because you don't know if you'll get a particular one.


How would one build a strategy around them anyway? I can see you plotting for the Shipowners Guild, but that's about it. The rest are dependent on your neighbors. That being the case, I think seeing them ahead of time is a bad idea or at the very least a pointless one.

Whether or not I build all stages of my wonder may depend on the builders guild being in play
Go for science if the scientists guild is in play
Go for military if the strategists guild is in play.
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mag74b wrote:
Whether or not I build all stages of my wonder may depend on the builders guild being in play
Go for science if the scientists guild is in play
Go for military if the strategists guild is in play.


You'd really cut back on building a stage or two of your wonder just to deny your neighbor a point or two?

I can see where you'd LIKE to get the Scientists Guild if you went for science, but the odds of that happening are extremely slim anyway. If you've built up in science, who'd going to pass it to you? I don't see how knowing that guild is in play should alter your plans in the least.

Same thing with the Strategists Guild. Going strong enough in military will get you 18 pts. That card would get you at least 6 more points, even more if your neighbors are getting hit from the other side as well. Again though, how do you figure that YOU will get that guild card?
 
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Although in a 3 player game there's a better chance of getting dealt the one you want.
 
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Trump wrote:
mag74b wrote:
Whether or not I build all stages of my wonder may depend on the builders guild being in play
Go for science if the scientists guild is in play
Go for military if the strategists guild is in play.


You'd really cut back on building a stage or two of your wonder just to deny your neighbor a point or two?

I can see where you'd LIKE to get the Scientists Guild if you went for science, but the odds of that happening are extremely slim anyway. If you've built up in science, who'd going to pass it to you? I don't see how knowing that guild is in play should alter your plans in the least.

Same thing with the Strategists Guild. Going strong enough in military will get you 18 pts. That card would get you at least 6 more points, even more if your neighbors are getting hit from the other side as well. Again though, how do you figure that YOU will get that guild card?

Off course you can never be sure whether you get the card that you want or not, but if it is in there, there is a good chance that you will, especially with fewer players.
especially in the first two or three turns of an age there is a relatively good chance that other players will hand you the card that you want, either because it would cost them more to prevent you from getting it, then it would cost them to play another card and give you the card you want, or because they have multiple card that are beneficial to you, so they have to hand you one or more anyway.
When we play with known guilds, I will not base an entire strategy on the guild cards in the deck, but when deciding on a strategy I will take into account what guild cards will come.
 
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Daniel DuBois
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I myself had the same idea. Knowing those cards exist (or don't exist) in the pool has a subtle impact on card valuation. Obviously people would not, and should not, change every decision they make around the existence on a particular purple card, but given two otherwise equally-good choices, that knowledge might push them in one direction over the other.

The game is already very swingy and tactical; anything that adds to the strategy, even if only slightly, seems like a good element to me.

So, rather than continue to argue theory, has anyone tried this variant and have actual playtest results to share?
 
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