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Subject: Rule Misprint? rss

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Bill Bass
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I just received my copy of the reprinted edition of For Sale, and I believe I have found a discrepancy in the rules.

From the section regarding "Passing":

"If a player passes, he takes the property that remains on the table with the lowest value. He also takes back half of his Money Chips (rounded up). For example, if a player had previously bid 3 money chips, but ultimately decided to pass, he takes back 1 Money Chip into his hand. The rest are returned to the bank and are placed out of the game."


Half of the 3 chip bid given in the example, rounded UP, is 2 chips, not 1 as the example states. So which is correct, the rule as stated, or the example, which seems to imply that the player is to take back half of his bid, rounded DOWN?

Thanks in advance.
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Paul Sauberer
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Re:Rule Misprint?
Tazzmann (#462703),

The rules are correct and the example is in error.

This was confirmed on the Spielfrieks Yahoo group.
 
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Nasty McHaggis
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I just received my copy of the new reprint, and was baffled by the same rule/example discrepancy. It absolutely blows my mind how such a glaring error could have made its way into the final printing of a rulebook.
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Chester
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Perhaps my memory fails, but I thought in the FX Schmidt rules you rounded down.
 
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Brent Mair
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Psauberer wrote:
Tazzmann (#462703),

The rules are correct and the example is in error.

This was confirmed on the Spielfrieks Yahoo group.


It is the opposite. The rule is incorrect, the example is correct. You pay half your bid to the bank, rounded up.

Also, the rules seem to indicate that you are talking about number of chips. They talk about giving half your chips back to the bank. That leads to confusion with the $2,000 chips. The rules should say to give the bank "half the money rounded up" not "half the chips". I belive the assumption is that you can make change as needed.
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Mister Mike
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Well we now have 2 conflicting answers. Is there anything official out there on this?

We have been playing half rounded up comes back to you but other than altering the way bids are placed I don't see this as being a huge change one way or the other.

ninja
 
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Paul Sauberer
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mikey-flies wrote:
Well we now have 2 conflicting answers. Is there anything official out there on this?


After seeing the post about this I e-mailed Uberplay. Jeremy Young responded and confirmed that this rules change is the proper way and that the ambiguity would be corrected in future print runs.

Jeremy said that the change came from the designer, Stefan Dorra.

Quote:
We have been playing half rounded up comes back to you but other than altering the way bids are placed I don't see this as being a huge change one way or the other.


Although I have not played with this particular rule change, I think that it could be a case of cumulative changes having a great effect. Between this, changing the bidding so that you have to overbid or pass, the lower amount of money, and the greater number of houses, the overall effect is to suck money out of the game. This can decrease the flexibility you have on your bid.

What I am afraid of is that the game will come down to a matter of luck of the draw and seating position, particularly in a 6-player game, but I will hold judgement until I actually try all the changes together.

Even if it does end up with problems, I still have my original edition and will just be limited to 5 players. The original is a great filler. We'll see if the rules changes improve or detract.

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Richard Pardoe
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Psauberer wrote:
Although I have not played with this particular rule change, I think that it could be a case of cumulative changes having a great effect. Between this, changing the bidding so that you have to overbid or pass, the lower amount of money, and the greater number of houses, the overall effect is to suck money out of the game.


Interestingly, in our last session, I introduced this game to some folks and one misheard my bidding explanation and was playing with this new rule. I discovered this when his initial bid one round was 2 instead of 1.

With the take back half rounded down, the 1 bid is essentially a "no bid" as you take back your entire bid should the bid come back to you. With the take back half rounded up rule, there is no difference (for the bidder) in starting with a 1 bid or a 2 bid. The key is letting the next person have a 2 bid (and perhaps paying 1) or a 3 bid (and now paying 2). So if your goal is to reduce your opponents money, I think the 2 bid might a more preferred bid and increasing by 2 (to force the next person into the next tier) a more preferred raise....perhaps this is why the 2 chips were added to the game?

I have only played this game with 3/4 players. While money is "tight" with the incorrect rules, it is manageable as the raise once the bidding returns isn't that great. With 5 or 6, at minimum raises (+1), one needs to add 5 or 6 to their original bid. Looking at the average money available for each bidding rounds:

Players Money Rounds $/Rnd 3 18 8 2.25 4 18 7 2.57 5 14 6 2.33 6 14 5 2.80
Adding 5 or 6 to the bid is almost equivalent to saying you will not bid in 2 future rounds as you are giving up the average amount you can bid in each round.

What is interesting is that it appears the 5 player game is the tightest with money. (If the starting capital had been 16 - $/Rnd would be 2.67 or more "inline" with the other combinations.)

But as I stated above, these are just conceptual thoughts as I have yet to play the game with 5 or 6...so rather than speculate, need to find a large group, give it a try and then comment more.
 
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Jim K.
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Psauberer wrote:
After seeing the post about this I e-mailed Uberplay. Jeremy Young responded and confirmed that this rules change is the proper way and that the ambiguity would be corrected in future print runs.

Jeremy said that the change came from the designer, Stefan Dorra.


Just to help me remove the ambiguity that is still swilling around in my head, "this rules change" that you are referring to is that a player who passes takes back half their bid, rounded up - yes?
 
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Richard Pardoe
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skink wrote:
Just to help me remove the ambiguity that is still swilling around in my head, "this rules change" that you are referring to is that a player who passes takes back half their bid, rounded up - yes?


The rules change is changing the rules as written in the Uberplay rule book.

Currently, the rules state: If a player passes, he takes back half his money (rounded up). This rule has changed. The correct rule (for the Uberplay edition): If a player passes, he takes back half his money (rounded down).

The example on Page 6 of the rules is now correct and consistent with the rules change.

IIRC - this is also a change from previous versions of the game. In previous versions, you took back half (rounded up), but you could also "check" bid in that you matched the previous bid. The Uberplay version requires you outbid the previous bid to stay in the game.
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