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Subject: Sex Offender Registry Shenanigans rss

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Chad Ellis
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Awful.
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Well looking at the requirements for having to register to the list:

940.225(1) First Degree Sexual Assault**
940.225(2) Second Degree Sexual Assault**
940.225(3) Third Degree Sexual Assault
940.22(2) Sexual Exploitation by Therapist
940.30 False Imprisonment-victim was minor and not the offender's child
940.31 Kidnapping -victim was minor and not the offender's child
944.01 Rape (old statute)
944.06 Incest
944.10 Sexual Intercourse with a Child (old statute)
944.11 Indecent Behavior with a Child (old statute)
944.12 Enticing Child for Immoral Purposes (old statute)
948.02(1) First Degree Sexual Assault of a Child**
948.02(2) Second Degree Sexual Assault of a Child**
948.025 Repeated Acts of Sexual Assault of a Child**
948.05 Sexual Exploitation of a Child
948.055 Causing a child to View or Listen to Sexual Activity
948.06 Incest with a Child
948.07 Child Enticement
948.075 Use of a Computer to Facilitate a Sex Crime
948.08 Soliciting a Child for Prostitution
948.095 Sexual Assault of a Student by School Instructional Staff
948.11(2)(a)-(am) Exposing Child to Harmful Material-felony sections
948.12 Possession of Child Pornography
948.13 Convicted Child Sex Offender Working with Children
948.30 Abduction of Another's Child
971.17 Not Guilty by Reason of Mental Disease-of a listed sex offense
975.06 Sex Crimes Law Commitment
980.01 Sexually Violent Person Commitment**


But it does go on to give this:

Discretionary Registration The Court has discretion under Wisconsin statutes to require in a court order that a person register for violating the following statutes if the court determines that the underlying conduct was sexually motivated and registration is in the best interest of public safety:
Chapter 940 Crimes Against Life and Bodily Security.


Maybe there was more to the case than stated in the blogsphere?
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Mark Britten
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MWChapel wrote:
Well looking at the requirements for having to register to the list:

940.225(1) First Degree Sexual Assault**
940.225(2) Second Degree Sexual Assault**
940.225(3) Third Degree Sexual Assault
940.22(2) Sexual Exploitation by Therapist
940.30 False Imprisonment-victim was minor and not the offender's child
940.31 Kidnapping -victim was minor and not the offender's child
944.01 Rape (old statute)
944.06 Incest
944.10 Sexual Intercourse with a Child (old statute)
944.11 Indecent Behavior with a Child (old statute)
944.12 Enticing Child for Immoral Purposes (old statute)
948.02(1) First Degree Sexual Assault of a Child**
948.02(2) Second Degree Sexual Assault of a Child**
948.025 Repeated Acts of Sexual Assault of a Child**
948.05 Sexual Exploitation of a Child
948.055 Causing a child to View or Listen to Sexual Activity
948.06 Incest with a Child
948.07 Child Enticement
948.075 Use of a Computer to Facilitate a Sex Crime
948.08 Soliciting a Child for Prostitution
948.095 Sexual Assault of a Student by School Instructional Staff
948.11(2)(a)-(am) Exposing Child to Harmful Material-felony sections
948.12 Possession of Child Pornography
948.13 Convicted Child Sex Offender Working with Children
948.30 Abduction of Another's Child
971.17 Not Guilty by Reason of Mental Disease-of a listed sex offense
975.06 Sex Crimes Law Commitment
980.01 Sexually Violent Person Commitment**


But it does go on to give this:

Discretionary Registration The Court has discretion under Wisconsin statutes to require in a court order that a person register for violating the following statutes if the court determines that the underlying conduct was sexually motivated and registration is in the best interest of public safety:
Chapter 940 Crimes Against Life and Bodily Security.


Maybe there was more to the case than stated in the blogsphere?


Even so, the fact that false imprisonment of a minor is automatically considered a sex crime is a bit strange in my opinion. Obviously there are cases where it is, but not always.
 
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Chad Ellis
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Koldfoot wrote:
To reiterate my main point. Criminal records have never been secret. Criminals have relied on the fact that their records were difficult to obtain. More information in this instance is preferable.


More information isn't always preferable -- bad/misleading information can be worse than none. If I get notice that the person who moved in next door to me is a sex offender, our natural assumption is that he's a potential danger to our children. If, in fact, he's someone who eight years ago (at age 18) had sex with his fifteen year old girlfriend, how has that notice helped me?
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Paul Sauberer
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Koldfoot wrote:
Chad_Ellis wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
To reiterate my main point. Criminal records have never been secret. Criminals have relied on the fact that their records were difficult to obtain. More information in this instance is preferable.


More information isn't always preferable -- bad/misleading information can be worse than none. If I get notice that the person who moved in next door to me is a sex offender, our natural assumption is that he's a potential danger to our children. If, in fact, he's someone who eight years ago (at age 18) had sex with his fifteen year old girlfriend, how has that notice helped me?


If we can agree that your basic point is that some latitude ought to be given before someone is placed on "the sex offender list" then we agree. I know a couple homeless people who were at risk of being on the sex offender registry for public urination, which is also completely unfair.

How does it help you? That's a softball question. It benefits you to know if your neighbor/babysitter/coworker/etc. has a criminal record OR if they don't. You were obviously motivated to check out the safety of your neighborhood. You don't feel any better knowing you don't have any blatant criminal neighbors?

In my position I often use the public court records database for my state. It can often give me a clue about a person I don't know. For example: If they have a lot of speeding tickets that is one thing, but if they have a long history of domestic violence that can be a clue that they are stalking a female who may be seeking services at the agency for which I work. Likewise, a lot of arrests for public drunkenness are a clue that they are homeless despite their denials.

In my example I don't use the information to jump to conclusions, and neither should you, I just use the information and mentally flag it.

Soooooo, that one bit of information may not have benefited you in the narrow circumstance which you relate, but having one offense on one's record is as surely a clue about the nature of that person as is 30 similar offenses on his record. A single arrest or conviction is often a fluke and should be regarded as such. A history of offenses is a clue. Not definitive, but a clue.


But what if those arrests for public drunkenness caused the person to be put on a list of murderers? Is getting a list of murderers with their name on it really helpful to you?

Once it becomes known that this list of "murderers" includes many people who aren't actually murderers it will diminish the useful of the list.

that's the problem with mailing out a sex offeder warning about someone who isn't a sex offender. If you start getting a wehole bunch of them they will become the equivalent of a car alarm. Lots of people ignore them now because so many of the alarms are false.
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cryolemon wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
Well looking at the requirements for having to register to the list:

940.225(1) First Degree Sexual Assault**
940.225(2) Second Degree Sexual Assault**
940.225(3) Third Degree Sexual Assault
940.22(2) Sexual Exploitation by Therapist
940.30 False Imprisonment-victim was minor and not the offender's child
940.31 Kidnapping -victim was minor and not the offender's child
944.01 Rape (old statute)
944.06 Incest
944.10 Sexual Intercourse with a Child (old statute)
944.11 Indecent Behavior with a Child (old statute)
944.12 Enticing Child for Immoral Purposes (old statute)
948.02(1) First Degree Sexual Assault of a Child**
948.02(2) Second Degree Sexual Assault of a Child**
948.025 Repeated Acts of Sexual Assault of a Child**
948.05 Sexual Exploitation of a Child
948.055 Causing a child to View or Listen to Sexual Activity
948.06 Incest with a Child
948.07 Child Enticement
948.075 Use of a Computer to Facilitate a Sex Crime
948.08 Soliciting a Child for Prostitution
948.095 Sexual Assault of a Student by School Instructional Staff
948.11(2)(a)-(am) Exposing Child to Harmful Material-felony sections
948.12 Possession of Child Pornography
948.13 Convicted Child Sex Offender Working with Children
948.30 Abduction of Another's Child
971.17 Not Guilty by Reason of Mental Disease-of a listed sex offense
975.06 Sex Crimes Law Commitment
980.01 Sexually Violent Person Commitment**


But it does go on to give this:

Discretionary Registration The Court has discretion under Wisconsin statutes to require in a court order that a person register for violating the following statutes if the court determines that the underlying conduct was sexually motivated and registration is in the best interest of public safety:
Chapter 940 Crimes Against Life and Bodily Security.


Maybe there was more to the case than stated in the blogsphere?


Even so, the fact that false imprisonment of a minor is automatically considered a sex crime is a bit strange in my opinion. Obviously there are cases where it is, but not always.


Well that is why I highlighted the second part. The "discretionary" clause states it is not mandatory unless the court determines that the underlying conduct was sexually motivated.

What I was wondering is if the court was able to show that the law broken was sexually motivated.

Maybe we are missing an important part. If it wasn't sexually motivated, then yes, I think this was a miss step of the law in the courts. But I think the law itself leans to only crimes that have a sexual component.

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In all fairness, if you were in his shoes, would you be sure to tell people you had also drugged the minor?

It would be easy to abuse this list, but it's a tough call. How many points would need to be on the checklist for people to fairly determine if an oblique offender is placed on the list?
 
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Chad_Ellis wrote:


More information isn't always preferable -- bad/misleading information can be worse than none. If I get notice that the person who moved in next door to me is a sex offender, our natural assumption is that he's a potential danger to our children. If, in fact, he's someone who eight years ago (at age 18) had sex with his fifteen year old girlfriend, how has that notice helped me?


It may not help you NOW, but when your kids are 15 later on down the line, you'll remember to restock your slingshot.
 
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Koldfoot wrote:
Aetheros wrote:
In all fairness, if you were in his shoes, would you be sure to tell people you had also drugged the minor?

In all fairness I won't be hanging with 15 year old girls. For sex or otherwise.

In my job I deal with many sex offenders. There ain't a one of them who doesn't claim he was railroaded into a conviction by a girl who claimed she was 20 and looked to be 20. A small percentage of them are probably being truthful.


Too bad for them that stupidity isn't a good defense.
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Koldfoot wrote:
Aetheros wrote:
In all fairness, if you were in his shoes, would you be sure to tell people you had also drugged the minor?

In all fairness I won't be hanging with 15 year old girls. For sex or otherwise.

In my job I deal with many sex offenders. There ain't a one of them who doesn't claim he was railroaded into a conviction by a girl who claimed she was 20 and looked to be 20. A small percentage of them are probably being truthful.


The problem is that teenage girls have a lot of power over men. Since it's not generally accepted as an excuse that the girl lied to you, there is plenty of scope for girls to intentionally get men into trouble.

I'm not saying that it happens a lot, just that it does happen.

And really, it doesn't just have to be sex crimes, if a girl were to walk up to a man and kick him in the balls for no reason, he can't really retaliate without being derided at best.
 
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cryolemon wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
Aetheros wrote:
In all fairness, if you were in his shoes, would you be sure to tell people you had also drugged the minor?

In all fairness I won't be hanging with 15 year old girls. For sex or otherwise.

In my job I deal with many sex offenders. There ain't a one of them who doesn't claim he was railroaded into a conviction by a girl who claimed she was 20 and looked to be 20. A small percentage of them are probably being truthful.


The problem is that teenage girls have a lot of power over men. Since it's not generally accepted as an excuse that the girl lied to you, there is plenty of scope for girls to intentionally get men into trouble.

I'm not saying that it happens a lot, just that it does happen.


Probably so infrequently that its not worth thinking about. What really happens is the 15 year old is having sex with an older dude and the parents find out and call the police.

My experiences with sex offenders mirrors Koldfoot's, some dudes might really be that dumb, but most know they are hanging with jailbait and don't dwell to hard on it.
 
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wargamer66 wrote:
My experiences with sex offenders mirrors Koldfoot's, some dudes might really be that dumb, but most know they are hanging with jailbait and don't dwell to hard on it.


You're probably right that it's rare, but saying that the guys in question are dumb proves my point in a way. Some of them might be, but that doesn't mean that girls can't or don't take advantage of the way the law works for their own purposes. A girl who is 15 but can look and act 20 is in a very powerful position if she is feeling vindictive, and we all know that teen girls can be some of the most vindictive people there are.

Some of the problem is that girls know that the best way to ruin a guys life is to accuse him of sex crimes.

Again, I'm not saying it's common, far from it, but no-one seems to acknowledge that it's even possible.
 
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Koldfoot wrote:
Psauberer wrote:
But what if those arrests for public drunkenness caused the person to be put on a list of murderers? Is getting a list of murderers with their name on it really helpful to you?

Once it becomes known that this list of "murderers" includes many people who aren't actually murderers it will diminish the useful of the list.

that's the problem with mailing out a sex offeder warning about someone who isn't a sex offender. If you start getting a wehole bunch of them they will become the equivalent of a car alarm. Lots of people ignore them now because so many of the alarms are false.


The individual in the OP was a sex offender. Oooo. Bad error. KIDNAPPER. And legitimately on the list.

The fact of the matter from what we know about Chad's case, for example, is that the guy could have plea bargained down from more serious charges. A judge thought he ought to be on the list. That information is not easily trackable.

For example, he plead guilty to sex with a minor and the prosecutor dropped the charges that he used a date rape drug because it would be tough to prove that it was he who slipped it to her.

If you were to talk to that guy, he would conveniently leave off that bit of the story, I am sure.


I must have misunderstood your point. In the post I was responding to you seemed to be saying that it was a good thing to be given a notice that there was a sex offender moving into the neighborhood, even if his offense really wasn't sexual in nature because his being a criminal was enough to warrant getting a warning, even if the warning wasn't completely accurate.

I thought you were talking in a more abstract sense and not addressing this particular instance.
 
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Over here in the state of the sometimes freer they tell me its still legal to urinate on the right hand rear corner of a vehicle, no matter where its parked.
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Pinook wrote:
Over here in the state of the sometimes freer they tell me its still legal to urinate on the right hand rear corner of a vehicle, no matter where its parked.


I'd heard that was still legal in the UK until like '98, but it had to be your own car.
 
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