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Subject: Point-based Tournament Idea rss

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Michael D. Kelley
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Hey guys, I've only played a few games of this, but one small issue jumps out at me so far.

Although the game theoretically encourages you to "block" good plays of other players by taking their cards, I feel it works less well in practice than in a game like Fairy Tale.

In Fairy Tale you use only 3 of the 5 cards drafted each round, leaving 2 drafted cards that can be pure blocking maneuvers, to lower the points of another player.

7 Wonders tries to do the same thing with the option to build a stage of your wonder or discard for 3 gold with any card. But the 3 gold option seems like a straight path to losing. And I'm more apt in the game to build a stage of my wonder when I have terrible cards for me in a given hand, and not when i have good cards for my opponent.

So I'm bandying about ideas for a 3-game tournament style of play, that would encourage more player interaction and blocking, and also cut down on luck of the draw.

Here's my idea. Let me know your thoughts or suggestions:

1 - Play three games in a row (or more if you want).

2 - At the end of each game, compare your score to your left and right neighbors.

3 - You score 1 tournament point for each left and right opponent you beat, a maximum of 2 points per game round.

4 - Switch seating around after each game if you like, to go against different partners each time. You could even adjust the order based on overall scores (strongest person in one chair, 2nd and 3rd player to their left or right, 4th and 5th player next to either side, etc.) This would put the weaker players against other weak players, to sort of level the playing field.

5 - At the end of 3 (or more) rounds, highest score of tournament points wins. Ties are broken by the total score from the last game played.

6 - If you hate the idea of not comparing total points, you can add in a special +1 point bonus for the high scorer overall in each game.


My hope is that this would encourage you to really block with and mess with your neighbors. In a regular 7 player game, it makes more sense points wise to take care of yourself (improving your standing against 6 other players) than to mess up one player. But here, blocking could become much more palatable, even if you only use the blocked card to discard for 3 gold.

Let me know what you think!
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Michael D. Kelley
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To expand on the seating arrangement idea, an example.

Players are seated as so in a 5-player game:


A
B C

D E


Scores are as follows:
A - 55
B - 47
C - 22
D - 38
E - 49

A beats both opponents, scoring 2 points
B beats D, soring 1 point
C beats noone, scoring 0 points
D beats noone, scoring 0 point
E beats D and C, scoring 2 points

The seating for next round would be:

A (with 2 points, 55 score)

E (2, 49) B (1, 47)

D (0, 38) C (0, 22)


So A will now be againt the 2 highest scorers from last round, while the low scorer C will go against the other two lowest scorers, hopefully ensuring good competition for all.
 
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Tim Seitz
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I think if you are overly concerned about the effectiveness of negative drafting, you could just play with fewer players. Have 2 games of 3 players rather than one game of 6.
 
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Trent Hamm
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See this text? It's a gratuitous waste of GeekGold.
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The game itself isn't important. Spending time intellectually jousting with likeminded folks is the real reason to game.
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Negative drafting is part of the game. Don't worry about it.

I constantly ask myself if I'd rather draft a card worth five points to me or defensively draft (and discard for three coins) a card worth seven points to my opponent (for example).
 
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Tim Seitz
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trenttsd wrote:
Negative drafting is part of the game. Don't worry about it.

I constantly ask myself if I'd rather draft a card worth five points to me or defensively draft (and discard for three coins) a card worth seven points to my opponent (for example).

You may be missing his point. He knows it's part of the game, but it's not as big a part as he wants it to be. If you play against your neighbor, you will lose to the guy across from you. his variant tries to compensate for that in a tournament setting.
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Michael D. Kelley
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Trent,

Yes, Tim has the right of it. I like the negative draft aspect of Fairy Tale, and would love to see it as a more viable option in 7 wonders to win competitively.

Tim,

Truthfully, I'm probably going to be playing the game almost exclusively with 3 or 4 players (and with the 2 player variant), since my regular group is small and difficult to get together. So you're right, negative drafting becomes a better strategy at those player numbers.
I was just thinking about how to make the game potentially more interesting with larger groups, and about how to address concerns I've seen from other player posts on the same issue.

But you're right, with 2 copies of the game, simultaneous play could be a fun way to go
 
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Tim Seitz
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GameMasterX0 wrote:
But you're right, with 2 copies of the game, simultaneous play could be a fun way to go

I don't think you'd need 2 copies of the game to play 2 simultaneous games of 3 players. You should be able to do it with just one.

There are multiple copies of pretty much all the cards except guilds. Deal 5 guild cards to one game, and the other 5 guilds cards to another game. Use the 4+, 5+, 6+ and 7+ cards to mirror the 3+ deck and have a 3+ equivalent deck for each game.
 
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Michael D. Kelley
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Interesting idea, there. I'll have to look at the distributions of the individual cards, but I think you're right.
 
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Tim Seitz
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GameMasterX0 wrote:
Interesting idea, there. I'll have to look at the distributions of the individual cards, but I think you're right.

Apart from the guilds, the only cards that don't have exact duplicates are the 1 coin cost either/or resource cards in Age I. They have them, but they have a slightly different distribution of paired resources. Personally, I don't think it would impact the game that much.
 
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