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Subject: Speculation: I bet they're starting worlds. rss

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Steven Metzger
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Race for the Galaxy fans know exactly what I'm talking about.

I'd be willing to guess that Cornucopia games use those 5 "unique" cards like starting worlds in RftG, and you replace one of your copper with one of those.
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Chris Hawks
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My point's been brought up elsewhere, but I'll mention it again: What of the sixth player?
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Steven Metzger
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Salt-Man Z wrote:
My point's been brought up elsewhere, but I'll mention it again: What of the sixth player?
Dominion only scales up to 4 in my universe.

Sorry bud - when you get to 6, it's time to play two 3-player games.
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Dave Kudzma
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metzgerism wrote:
Race for the Galaxy fans know exactly what I'm talking about.

I'd be willing to guess that Cornucopia games use those 5 "unique" cards like starting worlds in RftG, and you replace one of your copper with one of those.


Someone else suggested end-game bonuses like Race has, such as the 6-Cost Developments or the optional 1st/most bonuses. More likely the former than the latter.
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metzgerism wrote:
Salt-Man Z wrote:
My point's been brought up elsewhere, but I'll mention it again: What of the sixth player?
Dominion only scales up to 4 in my universe.

Sorry bud - when you get to 6, it's time to play two 3-player games.
It's not what you think (which I wholeheartidly agree with), but what RGG has made available in Intrigue.... that you could try to play Dominion with 6p. Of course though, they did seem to indicate that with only 4 player mats in Seaside (Island, Pirate Ship, Native Village), and only 12 Colonies (instead of 15 or 18 of them) in Prosperity.
 
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Umberto Eco
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ackmondual wrote:
Of course though, they did seem to indicate that with only 4 player mats in Seaside (Island, Pirate Ship, Native Village), and only 12 Colonies (instead of 15 or 18 of them) in Prosperity.

There are six of each mat in seaside.
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Steven Metzger
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UmbertoEco wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
Of course though, they did seem to indicate that with only 4 player mats in Seaside (Island, Pirate Ship, Native Village), and only 12 Colonies (instead of 15 or 18 of them) in Prosperity.

There are six of each mat in seaside.
And there are 8 of each mat in Prosperity, as well, but the 5+ player game was always a "variant" and never struck me as being very official.

Since its a small-box, I can see them saying "this is for 2-4 players ONLY so deal with it."
 
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Guy Srinivasan
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Or the cards don't make your starting deck better, so the usual starting deck is a 6th option.
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Ron Laufer
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GreedyAlgorithm wrote:
Or the cards don't make your starting deck better, so the usual starting deck is a 6th option.
Interesting, thought I'd be hard pressed to come up with 5 things worse than copper.

But your theory works just as well the other way. The 7copper/3 estate deck could be for player 1, and the other 5 could be better...
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Steven Metzger
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gonzoron wrote:
GreedyAlgorithm wrote:
Or the cards don't make your starting deck better, so the usual starting deck is a 6th option.
Interesting, thought I'd be hard pressed to come up with 5 things worse than copper.

But your theory works just as well the other way. The 7copper/3 estate deck could be for player 1, and the other 5 could be better...
Ooo...good call.
 
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Chris Ferejohn
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The only reason I don't find this a compelling argument is that I would think if they were going to have "starting worlds", they'd have more of them - like 10, to increase the variance. I'm still of a mind that it's goals of some sort.
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Matt E
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The problem with 'starting worlds' is that it would basically yank away the thing that makes Dominion intrinsically balanced: everybody starts with the same deck. Once that's gone, the amount of playtesting you'd have to do to balance the game would be astronomical and no matter how much you did, you'd still be left with one of two problems.

Problem #1: One or two of the world cards is going to be much better than the others for any given cards in the supply, giving some players a large advantage over the others OR

Problem #2: The changes made by the worlds are so minor and boring as to not be worth including in the game

So prove me wrong. Come up with even one 'starting world' scenario that doesn't have one of those two issues.
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Chad Weaver
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metzgerism wrote:
UmbertoEco wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
Of course though, they did seem to indicate that with only 4 player mats in Seaside (Island, Pirate Ship, Native Village), and only 12 Colonies (instead of 15 or 18 of them) in Prosperity.

There are six of each mat in seaside.
And there are 8 of each mat in Prosperity, as well, but the 5+ player game was always a "variant" and never struck me as being very official.

Since its a small-box, I can see them saying "this is for 2-4 players ONLY so deal with it."


The Seaside mats are each specific to a card. The Prosperity mat is for VP tokens. So if you had one six-player game with any number of Seaside and Prosperity cards, you are covered. If you had two four-player games, each using some Seaside and some Prosperity cards, you are covered, even if one setup has Goons and the other has Bishop, for example.
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Paul W
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metzgerism wrote:
And there are 8 of each mat in Prosperity, as well, but the 5+ player game was always a "variant" and never struck me as being very official.

Since its a small-box, I can see them saying "this is for 2-4 players ONLY so deal with it."


Sounds more like wishful thinking on your part, to be honest. You don't like 5-6 player games, therefore it's not something supported by the designers.
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It would be nice to have something like start worlds. The game does have an "artificial start world" anyways when you take your first 2 turns to buy cards, but this would be an even better way to spice up the standard 7 Copper and 3 Estates. That's one reason I like playing with the local/offline version of Dominion. The campaign mode offers various scenarios, changing up what you start off with, setting different win conditions, and forcing you to think unconventionally.
 
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Marc Plourde
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Maybe the cards change the starting point for all players equally?

So If you play with the "Wealthy Inheritance" card you start with 3 estates, 4 coppers and 3 silvers.
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Francesco Turri
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Maybe those five cards are all special action/curses.

Like... -10VP but then it gives you some crazy ability...

Thematically it could be that all the opulence grants you material benefits but at the same time tarnishes your soul*... or something


*Can you say this in english? I know you can tarnish your reputation... but your soul? hmm.
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Steven Tan
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BlackRainbow wrote:
Maybe those five cards are all special action/curses.

Like... -10VP but then it gives you some crazy ability...

Thematically it could be that all the opulence grants you material benefits but at the same time tarnishes your soul*... or something


*Can you say this in english? I know you can tarnish your reputation... but your soul? hmm.


That really doesn't seem to be in theme at all with the new expansion though: variety and farming. Not...pacts with the devil and Faustian bargains.
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Francesco Turri
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@discordjack: maybe, maybe not But I'd really like it if Mr. Vaccarino did something original with the curses...
 
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Indeed, the VP chips from Prosperity really make it feel like "Race for the Dominion".

Now this expansion adds something closely akin to 6-cost developments. But I'm not sure if I really want Dominion feeling like Race in just about every way. On the other hand, since I now play Race almost exclusively, maybe it will bring me back to Dominion...
 
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theright555J wrote:
Indeed, the VP chips from Prosperity really make it feel like "Race for the Dominion".

Now this expansion adds something closely akin to 6-cost developments. But I'm not sure if I really want Dominion feeling like Race in just about every way. On the other hand, since I now play Race almost exclusively, maybe it will bring me back to Dominion...


So far the only things Dominion and RftG have in common is that they use cards and victory point chips (sometimes).
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HappyProle wrote:
theright555J wrote:
Indeed, the VP chips from Prosperity really make it feel like "Race for the Dominion".

Now this expansion adds something closely akin to 6-cost developments. But I'm not sure if I really want Dominion feeling like Race in just about every way. On the other hand, since I now play Race almost exclusively, maybe it will bring me back to Dominion...


So far the only things Dominion and RftG have in common is that they use cards and victory point chips (sometimes).
--They're both eurogames
--they both have many expansions
--they're both highly ranked games here on BGG
--The randomizer deck for Dominion is already as big as RftG with the 1st exp

--they both have a concept of building up engine vs building up VP
--both have about the same level of "interaction"
--they have powers that break the standard rules
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Rob Neuhaus
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They both have Wei Hwa as a play tester.
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BlackRainbow wrote:
Thematically it could be that all the opulence grants you material benefits but at the same time tarnishes your soul*... or something

*Can you say this in english? I know you can tarnish your reputation... but your soul? hmm.


Kind of. It doesn't sound off to me, but it's not a thing I'd ever heard somebody say before. It sounds somewhat pleasantly poetic to me.

Anyway, back on topic. If they're something like start worlds it would definitely have to be something that applied to everybody. So either an alternate starting deck composition, or a persistent/reusable power that everybody has access to. With only five of them, the variety just isn't there to have each person get a different one, and as noted elsewhere in this thread it's a design nightmare.

The idea of a persistent/reusable power is appealing to me. It could be something that affects the game while it's being played (skip your turn to trash a card from hand) or something that affects scoring (each victory point card is worth one extra or one fewer VP, gain one extra VP chip the first time you gain a VP chip on a turn).

IMO, high value singleton cards in the supply would be way too swingy. First to hit 7? Sweet, have a unique advantage. That's just not a good call IMO. Although, something that remained in play and could be purchased away from you could be interesting. Or something that you buy or somehow pay to activate that remains in play and affects everybody could also be interesting. A card where you buy it for 5 and as an additional cost to play trash an attack card from your hand that makes all curses count as +1VP would be interesting (maybe you get to choose if it is trashed without effect or goes into play).
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Myke Madsen
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ackmondual wrote:

--They're both eurogames
--they both have many expansions
--they're both highly ranked games here on BGG

--< snip >--

--they both have a concept of building up engine vs building up VP
--both have about the same level of "interaction"
--they have powers that break the standard rules


Quite a few of these points are redundant

rrenaud wrote:
They both have Wei Hwa as a play tester.


Aha! Clearly his influence is creeping into the design!
 
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