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Subject: When you rate something '0', post a *REASON* for it! rss

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Xander Fulton
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Sorry, but this is really bothering me looking through my images.

For example, these:


Both rated 4.75 with 4 ratings? And I voted '10' on both! (I was pretty happy with them)

In fact, a bunch more of mine:


Rated '4', with 2 ratings.


Rated '5.5' with 2 ratings (one being my '10', so I KNOW the other voter rated it as low as possible)

It SEEMS like someone went through my list of submitted images and just voted a bunch of them as low as possible to be an ass or something....but I'd certainly hope nobody on BGG would be like that, so I must assume there was just something they REALLY DIDN'T LIKE about the images in question.

Soooo....mind telling me what it is? I mean, if you HATE THE IMAGE so much that you rate it a '1', you could at LEAST bother to provide me some feedback so I can improve the pictures I take in the future.
 
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Re: When you rate something '0', WILL YOU %#$&ING POST A REASON!?!?
they look pretty good to me, except of course that they're one of THOSE games!
 
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Re: When you rate something '0', WILL YOU %#$&ING POST A REASON!?!?
It's only a number in a database - why do you get so worked up about it ? Chances are people will now go out of their way to rate your pictures as low as possible.

Possible reasons can be :

- rater is on dialup and doesn't like the picture size
- rater thinks he has enough with one picture of a blue hexboard with chits on it, and doesn't get more information from further similar pictures
- rater has got a personal grudge against you
- rater hates naval games and has far too much time on his/her hands

I have not rated pictures, because I find it quite useless. Unlike geeklists, where you can show (dis)approval and influence the order of showing up and let the good stuff float upwards, you have no similar effect by rating pictures (ok, it determines which pictures show up by default when viewing a games page, so what ?).

To be frank, the second picture in the post is the only one which has any real value for me. Showing two or three different shots of game situations will not influence my decisions to buy a game. I like pictures of box front/back (different editions if possible), complete contents and details from components which have some information and learn something of the mechanics of the game and finally, pictures that look 'good'.

More then one shot of 'Le grand bleu' does not meet any of these criteria for me.
 
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Xander Fulton
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Re: When you rate something '0', WILL YOU %#$&ING POST A REASON!?!?
Presuming you were interested in the game itself (I'm guessing you aren't into naval games), all the shots DO serve a purpose. They fairly clearly show how the game looks in play - a pretty important point, IMHO. At least, it is to me when *I'm* looking at other games...I want to see what the components look like, what comes in the game box, and how the game plays (I've submitted some 52 images - just pulling these few at random. I usually DO try to submit all three types of images for a game.) To reply in detail:

gnomehome wrote:
- rater is on dialup and doesn't like the picture size

Then don't click on the link to see the larger picture! BGG shows the image in 3 different sizes, a click each time is needed to go the next size up.
gnomehome wrote:
- rater thinks he has enough with one picture of a blue hexboard with chits on it, and doesn't get more information from further similar pictures

Not a fan of naval games, huh? They are ALL fields of blue with chits on them...to a naval gamer, those pics tell TONS about the game.
gnomehome wrote:
- rater has got a personal grudge against you

Yeah, well....that's kinda immature.
gnomehome wrote:
- rater hates naval games and has far too much time on his/her hands

Ditto with the 'immature'. If they don't like naval games, don't rate the images of them.

Anyway, the reason I posted this in 'suggestions' was lost in my tirade above.

I'd like to see one of two possibly 'solutions' to this gripe:

1) Post the username associated with each rating. If someone rates something as low as possible, I want to know who it is so I can ask them why they rated it thusly - maybe they DO have constructive criticism that could help me in the future

2) Better - require a comment with each rating. Explain it!
 
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Steen Bang-Madsen
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Re: When you rate something '0', WILL YOU %#$&ING POST A REASON!?!?
Another possible explanation is that we have a rather large number of "cops" on the site. If they feel something "unjust" has been done, like boosting the rating of something - they will take countermeassures. In this case, they will make a counter-rating.

When you encounter a picture with just one rating, and that being a 10, it is very likely the owner of the picture that has rated it. A lot of people out there seems to have a deep grudge against that.
 
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Re: When you rate something '0', WILL YOU %#$&ING POST A REASON!?!?
Another possible reason can be that they feel the user is trying to assemble geekgold in an 'unjust' fashion with not enough effort. A bit like writing reviews with a too low wordcount cool
 
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Rich S.
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Re: When you rate something '0', WILL YOU %#$&ING POST A REASON!?!?
I've never understood why pictures were rate-able in the first place, but the only thing that confuses me more than that is why people ascribe any sort of meaning to how their pictures are rated.

Why do you care? I promise: I'm not asking that in a snarky, arms-folded, eyes lowered sort of way. I genuinely want to know why anyone gives a hoot about picture ratings on either side of them. Does something adverse happen to low-rated shots? Are they removed or the user punished? I don't think that's the case, so what's the beef?
 
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Will Black
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Re: When you rate something '0', WILL YOU %#$&ING POST A REASON!?!?
I would have to fully agree with this below.

Stony wrote:
Another possible explanation is that we have a rather large number of "cops" on the site. If they feel something "unjust" has been done, like boosting the rating of something - they will take countermeassures. In this case, they will make a counter-rating.

When you encounter a picture with just one rating, and that being a 10, it is very likely the owner of the picture that has rated it. A lot of people out there seems to have a deep grudge against that.


2ndly picture two has the only real value in my option also. 3rdly why do you vote on your own pictures?

 
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Randy Cox
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Re: When you rate something '0', WILL YOU %#$&ING POST A REASON!?!?
Surely, you remember all the posts about "proper" ways to rate pictures when we first got this dandy featuer (which I haven't used in a long time). There were several of us who want to see all the components and the box, others who wanted to see close up macro shots of a single piece (or every piece), others who wanted in-game action. You can't please all groups. And furthermore, each group seemed to indicate that a really good shot that depicts whatever the group in question is looking for might top out at a 7 and would usually be around a 5, unless there was something extraordinary about a picture. Those are hard grading guidelines, but seems to be the norm around here.

I suppose there could be some people who perceive you as their "enemy" (that happens, you know, when people can't read tone from a text message on a forum), and they may try to undercut your ratings. But I doubt that's a major problem here.
 
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Lyman Hurd
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Re: When you rate something '0', WILL YOU %#$&ING POST A REASON!?!?
I fall into the "taking this way too seriously" camp. I think this is a pretty good illustration that picture ratings generate more heat than light.

For Geeklists it gives those in a hurry the opportunity to scan the interesting ones. For pictures, a gallery of thumbnails comes up pretty quickly and I can almost always tell if I want to se ethe full size image.

I think that the ratings cops are havinga chilling effect on contributions to the geek, and instead of keeping quality high they are just ensuring that casual users stay away. Otherwise they find themselves criticized if their review is too short or their picture too blue or... Had I ventured upon the site for the first time in the last little while I would be wondering what unwritten rule I am likely to break next!

By the way, as to the subject I think that rating a picture a zero is pretty pointless but adding a comment "I think your picture is ugly." or some such would have little beneficial effect!
 
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Mark Taraba
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Re: When you rate something '0', WILL YOU %#$&ING POST A REASON!?!?
Quote:
I've never understood why pictures were rate-able in the first place


It was something discussed as a way to have the system choose what pictures to show for the game page. Also low rated images could be scanned to see if they should be deleted. Basically, everyone using the geek can monitor content instead of just a few people who are overloaded.
 
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Re: When you rate something '0', WILL YOU %#$&ING POST A REASON!?!?
It would be nice if people who rated images, whether poorly or excitedly, would comment. I think those of us who have submitted images would like to know why people have given them the ratings they have (this applies to all rated items on the site, actually). I know we cannot compel everyone to comment, but linking ratings to comments would be useful, no? A lot of the rancor, hurt feelings, etc. over ratings seems to stem from the fact that they're so anonymous and subjective. My picture is a 3.5? Why? According to whom? Etc.
 
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Tim Mitchell
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Re: When you rate something '0', WILL YOU %#$&ING POST A REASON!?!?
Rating 0 to 10 is too granular, really. Can you tell a 7 photo from an 8?

I think a great/average/poor rating would accomplish the same goals of highlighting the best photos and flagging ones to delete. (Or perhaps add a "unsuitable" ranking below poor.)

It takes less mental space too. I could flag g/a/p without thinking about it, but somehow thinking about 1-10 is just too much bother for a photo. Silly (I mean, I could always just rate 2, 6, 10), but that's how it's worked out.
 
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Randy Cox
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Re: When you rate something '0', WILL YOU %#$&ING POST A REASON!?!?
XanderF wrote:
I mean, if you HATE THE IMAGE so much that you rate it a '1', you could at LEAST bother to provide me some feedback so I can improve the pictures I take in the future.


Problem is, there's no means of providing feedback about a picture rating. There's an image comment section, but that's not correlated to one's rating. That could be a question about which edition you were photographing or why the board looks funny or that the game was set up improperly for that particular shot. It's not like the game ratings where you have a comment to make right alongside the box where you enter your rating.
 
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Re: When you rate something '0', WILL YOU %#$&ING POST A REASON!?!?
XanderF wrote:
It SEEMS like someone went through my list of submitted images and just voted a bunch of them as low as possible to be an ass or something....but I'd certainly hope nobody on BGG would be like that...


Are you kidding? BGG is chock full of self-righteous, self-appointed "Shill Cops" who feel that it is their sworn duty to make sure that every highly rated item that does not meet their personal approval is chopped down at the knees ("How can this be so highly rated by a few people that I do not even know? They must be shills! And they must be punished for their insolence and soiling my precious Geek with their evil-intentioned predations upon the ill-informed, red-state-voting gaming public!"). Baffling? Childish? Anti-Social? I do not know which adjective is best applied to these snobbish "Protectors of the Geek". Their just as bad as the shills they are trying to cancel out.

"Those who know what's best for us must rise and save us from ourselves!"
 
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Xander Fulton
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Re: When you rate something '0', WILL YOU %#$&ING POST A REASON!?!?
nextinline wrote:
Xander. Not rating your own work gives you the chance to correct someone else's self-righteous zeal later by supplying your own counter-rating... so hold off. If you know it's good stuff then you're meeting your own high expectations. Kudos to everyone with that attitude.

Well, you'll note, MOST of my pictures I have not rated. I've only rated one or two that:
1) Somebody gave a really awful rating to as the first evaluation
2) I was really happy with the way they came out.

richardolen2 wrote:
Why do you care? I promise: I'm not asking that in a snarky, arms-folded, eyes lowered sort of way. I genuinely want to know why anyone gives a hoot about picture ratings on either side of them. Does something adverse happen to low-rated shots? Are they removed or the user punished? I don't think that's the case, so what's the beef?

Well, because it's insulting, if nothing else. I don't write many Geeklists, don't write MANY reviews, few session reports, etc - but I submit BUCKETS of images as how I contribute to the 'geek. And here someone feels its ?their self-proclaimed duty? to try and tell me that the way I just to contribute to the 'geek isn't good enough or sucks somehow....but doesn't bother to feel like telling me why they think so.

It just comes off as being insulting for no good reason.
 
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Re: When you rate something '0', WILL YOU %#$&ING POST A REASON!?!?
Since when was this site called dullphotogeek.com?
I culdn't care less about the images except in what they say! If the ratings system is subjective and open to criticism, what chance has the picture section got. Get rid of picture ratings; all they seem to be in my opinion is ego fuel.
 
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Re: When you rate something '0', WILL YOU %#$&ING POST A REASON!?!?
I would have rated them higher, but I don't bother rating images because I think to do so would be rather silly and pointless. I agree with those who have previously suggested that you not get so worked up about this matter. I also know that this is easier said than done. As I have said many times in other postings, the whole ratings' system is purely subjective and a bit of a farce. The more people try to "fix" the system, the greater the farce as long as there are no objective standards by which we rate things. All of this is, however, only my subjective opinion.
 
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Re: When you rate something '0', WILL YOU %#$&ING POST A REASON!?!?
Picture ratings are essentially a joke. People can rate them any way they wish because they can do so anonymously. There's no rhyme or reason to it, and it's rare to even have a photo rated above a 7.0 unless it has camels or Catanishness in it. If a bayesian average were used on the photos they'd all have a rating of 5.5 and it wouldn't matter one bit.

I submitted this picture of Carrier Strike which, once upon a time was on the first page of the top rated photos. Now it's like on page six. I don't think suddenly 50 better pictures showed up. I think that there's a large colored camel sucking animal loving posse that started dishing out 1s that just turned all the ratings into mediocrity.

I'll still submit pictures to the geek that I think add something, but I've decided it's not worth caring anymore what many people here think.
 
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Re: When you rate something '0', WILL YOU %#$&ING POST A REASON!?!?
Pictures are also my way of contributing to the BGG. The ratings have puzzled me thus far.

When I take photos, I just try to make them interesting, not necessarily informative. I am surprised when some photos that I think are a bad rate as high as some I think are quite good.

I lean towards in game shots. Heck, it's hard enough keeping the game pieces in focus.

Bottom Line: Geeks should appreciate anything in focus that the admins are willing to post!shake
 
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Re: When you rate something '0', WILL YOU %#$&ING POST A REASON!?!?
I'll have to chime in and agree with the "picture ratings are pointless, ignore them" crowd. I thought it was a good idea when it was implemented, but I simply can't count the number of times I've looked at a really good picture and seen it rated 4 of 10 ratings.

A nice big picture of a game in progress, good lighting, in focus, shows exactly what the game will look like in play... slammed with ultra low ratings... why?

A good, in focus picture of the game box, so I will recognize it if I see it in the store ... rated even lower.

A nice close-up of some cards or game pieces so I can see in detail what the pieces I would get look like, rated even lower.

I don't know what criteria people are using to rate pictures, but it appears to entire disagree with mine.

I still rate them once in awhile, if I happen to zoom in on one and remember to rate it, but the pointlessness of the current ratings make me forget about it most of the time.
 
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Re: When you rate something '0', WILL YOU %#$&ING POST A REASON!?!?
Stony wrote:
When you encounter a picture with just one rating, and that being a 10, it is very likely the owner of the picture that has rated it. A lot of people out there seems to have a deep grudge against that.


I think this is it in a nutshell. If you want to rate any of your own pictures a ten then wait until a few other people have rated it. Otherwise, rightly or wrongly (and I tend to vote "wrongly") there are those who consider the lone ten a shill and will shillbust it.
 
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Re: When you rate something '0', WILL YOU %#$&ING POST A REASON!?!?
I am probably one getting shill-busted. At one point, when I was rating pics regularly, I would give a 10 to any in focus pic of the game in-play, the box cover, or that showed a good view of the bits. I suppose the geek-police saw my lone rating, assumed it was made by the submitter, and slammed it. Weak.
 
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Re: When you rate something '0', WILL YOU %#$&ING POST A REASON!?!?
A posted picture that rates a 1 earns you the same Geek Gold that a posted picture that is rated a 10 does. You've made your contribution to the Geek community and have been given your Geek Gold as a reward for your submissions. Congratulations!

Rating your material is now in the hands of others and they can rate it whatever they like for whatever reasons they like. Some happen to rate your pics low. Some happen to rate MY pcis low! That's their privilege and so what if they do?

 
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Re: When you rate something '0', WILL YOU %#$&ING POST A REASON!?!?
Well, I'd like an *explanation* is all!
 
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