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Subject: Ordinance rss

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Greg Barker
United States
Winchester
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Just purchased game and trying to figure out how to play using vassal. I do have questions on the To Hit process.

Suppose I have a panther tank #34 firing at a T34 #34. Range is 2. I play any fire card and draw a RNC. At this range I would need a 0-2 to hit and I draw a 1. Do I use the box effect number as my firepower? Or, do I add what I just had drawn for my to hit card? Or do I draw another card and add this to the boxed effects number?

Rules are very hard to follow. I have read and re-read this section and I am still confused. When is the firepower next to the range used?
Thanks for any help.
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Marty M
Ireland
Fermoy
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Hi Greg,

Yes, in this example you would score a hit by drawing 0-2, so your draw of 1 would result in a hit. The colour of the number would not matter, unless either yourself or your target were moving, in which case a red 0-2 would be a miss.

Your hit strength when using boxed effect numbers against AFVs is equal to the boxed effect number, plus a number equal to the relative range between firer & target (in this case 2). This would result in a hit strength of 7 + 2 = 9 in your example.

25.4 HIT STRENGTH:
Once a hit has been obtained, the strength of that hit is determined by adding the To Hit Random Number on the RNC just drawn to the Effect Number listed on the ordnance card. (EXC: IG/AFV ordnance firing at an AFV target does not add the To Hit Random Number just drawn; instead it adds a number equal to the Relative Range between the firer and the target.) The color of the RNC has no effect; all numbers are added. Having now determined the total strength of the attack (after modification for terrain and/or movement), it is resolved separately for each target in the defending group by drawing a new RNC and adding any black number or subtracting any red number drawn as per a normal fire attack [6.5].



If you are new to Up Front, I would advise starting with scenario 1 - a meeting of patrols, and wouldn't even think of attempting ordnance, let alone AFVs until you are familiar & comfortable with the rules for infantry, fire attacks, terrain effects, lateral group & individual transfer, infiltration, close combat, etc, etc.

Take your time & learn to walk before you try to run - it will be worth it.

PS - the firepower adjacent to the range is used when the AFV fires its machine gun at a target rather than using its main ordnance weapon.
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Greg Barker
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Thanks. If I could find an opponent, that would help a lot. Ftf even better. Even if for a couple of turns using vassal would help.
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Marty M
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Glenn Oberhauser (manhattandoctor here on BGG) is carrying out a rewrite of the rules, available here http://www.canyonpointstudios.com/UpFront.pdf.

The BGG page discussing the rewrite can be found here. It looks pretty good to me, and should be helpful.

Again, I would advise you to start with scenario A & work your way forwards slowly from there.


 
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Richard Irving
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It should be pointed out that none of the standard scenarios feature AFV's on both sides. So these rules won't come up except in DYO scenarios or the popular City Fight in 501 from the General.

Up Front really isn't a tank game, most of the standard AFV scenarios involve a halftrack or bren carrier or armored car or early war tank.

The big boys, even detuned as they are, overwhelm any scenario in Up Front in which they appear.
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Greg Barker
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Thanks. I purchased my game on ebay for $52. I think that was a good price since alot of the countets are unpunched. Been playing hex and counter games for 30 plus years. This will take getting use to.
 
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Edward Kendrick
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Redditch
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Re: Ordnance
The ordnance rules do make sense once you understand what they are trying to represent. There are two distinct cases: firing high explosive (HE) and armour piercing (AP) – solid shot. In both cases, whether or not you hit uses the same process – you have to draw less than or equal to the To Hit number.

1) With HE, the important thing is how close to the target the hit is. This is represented by getting a higher draw (but still within the to Hit number). So if you are hitting on “0-3”, a 2 is a “closer” hit than a 0. To represent this, the 2 is added to the HE (unboxed) effect against each target. If your To Hit is low enough that it’s less than “0”, for example a “1”, you’re never going to get a really close hit, so you don’t get to add the 1 if you do hit. On the other hand, if you have a high To Hit, eg “0-4”, you are fairly certain to hit, and have decent chance of getting a better hit by drawing a positive number – which increases your effect.

2) With AP, which is only used against AFVs, it’s different. By making a successful To Hit draw, you’ve already hit the vehicle, and the question is whether you penetrate it – where you hit is comparatively unimportant (it’s assumed you hit on the front of the target – if you get a flank/rear shot the target usually has lower defence values to represent this). What affects the likelihood of penetration is how close the firing ordnance is to the target. So in this case you add the relative range to the AP (boxed) effect number of the ordnance. For example, if you are both at Range 0, the RR is 0, so you add nothing. If you’ve moved forward to Range 1 and he is at Range 2, the RR is 3, so you add 3.

In both cases, having evaluated the final Hit Strength, you check the final effect for each target (eg each man in a group targeted by HE) by drawing an RNC and use the red/black number, subtracting or adding the value to give the final effect. For an AP shot there will never be more than one target, but you still do this final check by turning a single card.

Bear in mind that when firing ordnance against a AFV which is not buttoned up or pinned (open-topped AFVs are pinned rather than buttoning-up) you can choose whether to fire HE or AP – with HE you are trying to hit the exposed crew and force them to close down, or if you’re lucky, get a Commander Killed result. In this case you use the normal HE procedure as above.

There are some ordnance weapons which don’t have a choice between HE and AP – they only ever fire one or the other. So mortars only ever fire HE. ATRs only ever fire AP, although they have an alternative use as a kind of infantry rifle with 1 FP. Bazookas, panzerfausts, panzerschrecks and PIATs are firing a shaped charge whose effect is less predictable than solid shot, so there is a random element in calculating their effect, and they do use the HE procedure when firing against an AFV, even though the final result is compared to the AFV’s armour defence value.

And finally, just for completeness, some early war British AFVs didn’t carry HE ammunition, so they are confined to firing solid shot against infantry targets. This is represented by using the HE procedure, but never adding a bonus to their unboxed Hit Strength of 0 even when they get a “close” hit. So you can land a 6-pdr (57mm) solid shot among an infantry group and maybe scare them, but you’re unlikely to kill anyone!
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