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Subject: Best with 2p? rss

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Byron Leung
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Vancouver
British Columbia
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Just got this game. And I haven't been able to find my ideal playing group. This game certainly has a very steep learning curve with people probably have no clue at all in the first 2 or 3 plays.

But I have a question:
Does the number sound off?

2 Player ends if someone got 6 achievements
3 Player ends if someone got 5 achievements
4 Player ends if someone got 4 achievements

So if i got the math right, in a 2 player game, the maximum achievement would hit the table when the game ends is 11. 3 is 13. 4 is 13.

It's reasonable to argue that 2 player game is shorter than the other 2 "playing mode" (ignoring down time and thinking time). And on top of that, 2 player game is probably slowest to advance in age.

So when people are saying "our games always at age 6 or 7 with 2 players", it's actually part of the design of the game rather than their playing skill (of course that would contribute as well).

So wouldn't it make sense if the game only ends with 7 achievements with 2 players to make that on par with the other 2 playing mode? Or am I missing something?

I am also very eager to try out the 4 player team mode. And apparently it follows the 2 player mode such that the game ends when 2 player has a combined total achievement of 6.
 
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Tim Seitz
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Glen Allen
VA
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Like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be recovered, so we must die. But God does not take away life; instead, he devises ways so that a banished person may not remain estranged from him. 2 Sam 14:14
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If you think the 2-player game is too short with 6 achievements, feel free to play to 7. Personally, I think it is just fine.
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Tom Shields
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After more than 60 plays, I think the design nailed the achievement counts as per the rules perfectly. More play and you'll see the value of when and if you want to take the game to the higher eras, and in that case you will know how.
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Jeff Hastings
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Gretna
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A king slime attacks.... You might need a band-aid.
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Personally, I think the game is best with 3 players. While I have no problem with the achievement counts needed at any of the player numbers, a two-player game is more challenging with keeping each other in check... meaning it's more likely someone might get a particular scoring card going that you never find a counter to - until it's too late. I don't dislike that part of the game, and it's definitely POSSIBLE to counter such a thing, but it is more difficult if the cards don't fall your way.

Needing 6 of the 9 obtainable achievements through points is still fairly steep if the 2nd player puts up any competition at all... granted sometimes that doesn't happen.


In a three player game, it's easier to keep each other in check because someone will usually find a way to get rid of your over-powered scoring or board-crushing mechanism you have in place. Also, it's more likely that someone will have more of a technology than you - and make you think twice about playing it because it might help them more than it does you. It's also more fun when you do get those instances of having more of a certain tech than anyone else and you hit them all with an attack at the same time.

While most of what I've said would be true with four players as well, I think the game starts to bog down a tad - and depending on your group - takes a bit longer to play through. It also takes a bit more attention checking who is ahead of who on the technologies.

Overall, three players is my favorite group because it seems to hit the sweet spot of being able to use attacks on multiple people, having people able to gang up and put down a major threat (eventually), compete for achievements to keep it from being as lop-sided, and still not take forever to play through a game.

This is one of the few games in my collection that I can say gets better every time I play it... and no two games have felt alike (also a statement I can rarely make about my games).

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Kirk Monsen
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The number of ages you go through is determined by the skill of the player in the worst position. For the game to last into the 9-10 range, each player should get close to an equal number of achievements. If one player does not score achievements, then the game will end in an earlier age.

-Munch "Ended a 2 player game tonight, I was in age 5, with the first 5 achievements and the empire card ... by placing her into age 8" Wolf
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David Jackman
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I forget where I found the variant (props to some random BGG user), but we play 2p with the following:

Remove 3 Age 1 cards and 2 cards from every other age from the game before starting.

Try this once- I promise your problems with 2p will dissolve.
 
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Tim Seitz
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Glen Allen
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Like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be recovered, so we must die. But God does not take away life; instead, he devises ways so that a banished person may not remain estranged from him. 2 Sam 14:14
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Saan wrote:
I forget where I found the variant (props to some random BGG user), but we play 2p with the following:

Remove 3 Age 1 cards and 2 cards from every other age from the game before starting.

Try this once- I promise your problems with 2p will dissolve.

I did the opposite. I bought two copies of the game so I could add cards to the 3- and 4-player games. Since the expansion will essentially do the same thing, though, I sold my extra copy.
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