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While Im fairly certain that this strategy will significantly alter the feel and play of BSG (thus reducing the enjoyment for some) I think it is a very effective strategy due to the balance of mechanics in the game.

Basically the strategy is to take your first opportunity to reveal and then use the new tools available to you to put constant pressure on the humans.

During previous itterations of BSG the cylon fleet (outside of repeated assault cards showing up) had very little control over its arrival or its staying power. While in many ways the CFB increases the likely hood of the fleet showing up the fact is that as long as the cylons are still hidden the humans have a number of tools to mitigate and manage the situation. (Damaged basestar single raider/heavy left) however much of this goes away if a cylon reveals and starts loading the CFB and moving the pursuit track.

Whenever possible using the die roll less than the number of raiders to damage Galactica. This should always be one of your actions whenever you have 9+ raiders on the board. The previous actions are about setting up this one. Damage on Galactica tends to generate a cascade effect leading to failed checks, destroyed civilian ships damaged vipers (which often leads to pilots in sick bay too) and a general degredation of the humans resources. It produces great synergy of effect.

Damage a location where a player is they go to sickbay if they are not next they XO is spent to get them out resulting in no bonus actions. We all know XO are not always available so the result of no XO or its that players turn is a lack of skill cards drawn. If its the support person they are not as likely to be able to repair. By drawing Red Blue and occasionally when playing with pegasus Treachery cards your ability to hamper their recovery efforts impropve as well.

When it comes to skill checks nearly all the 0 cards benefit you in some way
1 firstly they dilute the key action cards
2 next they reduce the available strength to pass skill checks while often clogging a players hand
3 the skillcheck effects are often more beneficial to you than the humans

Max Firepower and Repair cards removed from the humans pool of cards make it very difficult for them to recover from the casecade effects of continued use of the CFB/Damage on Galactica.

In addition to the above effects now that every character has a key role to play removing that character from the mix early means less effective characters picking up that roll.

As a Cylon and:

the President the usual strategy of diggin into the Quorum deck (instead of XO or even playing them) is pretty solid and even if you didnt get anything useful it tended to keep access to the presidency away from the humans. Well revealing early now can have a similar effect as the urgency to XO other players increases effectively removing the Quorum deck nearly entirely. Not to mention the President title being shifted to a charcter with little advantage of having the title

the Admiral usually the option here was to deny XO's and pick the worst destinations (possibly waste the nukes. The advantaged of using the CFB out weigh these benefits. By having no crisis and thus no jump Icons (in conjunction with possible reducing jump track) the humans will not typically jump any faster or further than they did with you hidden in fact they will probably move even slower. While you will be able to constantly apply threats.

a Pilot/CAG this is pretty obvious you take away an important and crucial position in the new mechanics leaving the role to either a single person (thus reducing the effectivness of the other positions as more Xo's go to the 1 pilot) or a person ill equipped to take advantage of the role. The CFB early strategy specifically exposes a weakness in Piloting

Support again you take a much needed resource out of the hands of the humans and begins a strategy that takes advantage of that weakness as Damage on Galactica mounts.

Humans can get executed to cover holes in the roles once the cylon reveals but exactly how is this a bad thing?


There are no bad options on the CFB board because even civ ships being added means actions wasted in removing them.

The use of the CFB (and the Cylon fleet location) are powerful tools to the cylons that they did not have before and relied simply on luck and the odds before which meant staying hidden and picking your spot made a lot of sense. However now you can be just as effective and in some ways even more so by simply revealing right away and forcing the use of resources that are simply inconsistently developed on the humans side.

Quite simply the humans do not have the resources for a prolonged fight and eventually a hole will open up for the win. You are a machine and the strength of a machine is it doesnt get tired. This strategy takes advantage of that machine like quality of relentless precision.

As I said at the beginning this strategy turns the game of BSG into something akin to a game of Pandemic and may cause a measure of dissatisfaction with the game for both sides but I wanted to point out the options available now. Just as the humans game has changed with the new components the cylons can and has as well. Like it or not its now a very viable option.


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Yes, I feel like the Basestar Bridge might be too powerful and potentially change the game to a Pandemic-like simulation (but 3 hours at that).

Personally, I'd never do it since it's more interesting to be sneaky.
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Haven't had the time to read the OP yet, but I would like to say for now is, it'd be nice if someone can mod a PBF game to experiment with this. I'm not going to ask my IRL groups to try this since I don't want to impose play-styles on them. Plus, the cylons have been doing a great job of winning by laying low, so why ruin that?

Only rules I can think up of are that both cylon cards must be stacked so they get dealt out from the beginning, and cylon players must reveal on their first turns.
 
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aammondd wrote:
While Im fairly certain that this strategy will significantly alter the feel and play of BSG (thus reducing the enjoyment for some) I think it is a very effective strategy due to the balance of mechanics in the game.

Basically the strategy is to take your first opportunity to reveal and then use the new tools available to you to put constant pressure on the humans.


This is kind of the other thread redressed, but it seems constructive. I still don't think it's as powerful as you posit (the CFB by its very nature puts pressure on the humans and I haven't seen enough evidence that a revealed Cylon increases the odds of a Cylon win any more than the CFB itself does: because even if the Cylons stay hidden the humans have a harder time of things), but there are some things to dig into should a Cylon find themselves in this position.

aammondd wrote:
By drawing Red Blue and occasionally when playing with pegasus Treachery cards your ability to hamper their recovery efforts impropve as well.

When it comes to skill checks nearly all the 0 cards benefit you in some way
1 firstly they dilute the key action cards
2 next they reduce the available strength to pass skill checks while often clogging a players hand
3 the skillcheck effects are often more beneficial to you than the humans

Max Firepower and Repair cards removed from the humans pool of cards make it very difficult for them to recover from the casecade effects of continued use of the CFB/Damage on Galactica.


It's worth pointing out that the strategy of drawing red/blue actually the weakest draw if you're going for 0-cost cards. The Red one is never going to be useful to a Cylon employing this strategy because it can give the Current Player a viper activation, and the current player will NEVER be Cylon if they're on the BB. The Blue one needs to be used in multiples and will rarely be useful for a Cylon if at all.

It's certainly possible to hold onto your pre-Cylon draw if you have 0-cost cards, but an unrevealed Cylon can do the same damage with those. In any case, the mechanics don't support Red/Blue being both 0-cost AND painful to humans in any meaningful way. It's one or the other.

aammondd wrote:
As a Cylon and:

the President the usual strategy of diggin into the Quorum deck (instead of XO or even playing them) is pretty solid and even if you didnt get anything useful it tended to keep access to the presidency away from the humans. Well revealing early now can have a similar effect as the urgency to XO other players increases effectively removing the Quorum deck nearly entirely. Not to mention the President title being shifted to a charcter with little advantage of having the title


There is NO character in the political chain that does not benefit from being President. Roslin is the worst, with Ellen slightly behind her, but Baltar, Zarek and Tory are all MONSTER Presidents. If you have to go outside of color, Apollo sucks to get the title, but other than him there's nobody with "little advantage" to the title. I would maintain that a starting Cylon as President is in one of the BEST positions to remain unrevealed: you neglect to mention President Chooses Crisis cards (which a good Cylon can use to make "mostly good" decisions), and you usually control the majority of the Yellow draw.

aammondd wrote:
the Admiral usually the option here was to deny XO's and pick the worst destinations (possibly waste the nukes. The advantaged of using the CFB out weigh these benefits. By having no crisis and thus no jump Icons (in conjunction with possible reducing jump track) the humans will not typically jump any faster or further than they did with you hidden in fact they will probably move even slower. While you will be able to constantly apply threats.


Again you neglect the Admiral Chooses Crisis cards in this analysis. Admiral crises often allow the Admiral to garner support for decisions and try to convince the group that his choice is the "right" one between two bad ones. A hidden Cylon holding the Morale one (for example) can choose Morale losses with the "President can speech" justification knowing that he's going to hit it later, and so on. While not as strong as a hidden President IMO, a hidden Admiral still has more than enough tools to effectively sabotage the humans.

aammondd wrote:
a Pilot/CAG this is pretty obvious you take away an important and crucial position in the new mechanics leaving the role to either a single person (thus reducing the effectivness of the other positions as more Xo's go to the 1 pilot) or a person ill equipped to take advantage of the role. The CFB early strategy specifically exposes a weakness in Piloting


Here we agree. If I'm CAG I'm first-turn revealing. There's just no way to sandbag as CAG anymore (the "I have nothing to do in space" defense is gone and that means you have little choice but to help the humans), and as you say it pulls Piloting out, one of the strongest defenses against the CFB. If there IS an overpowered component to your strategy, this is where it shines.

aammondd wrote:
Support again you take a much needed resource out of the hands of the humans and begins a strategy that takes advantage of that weakness as Damage on Galactica mounts.


I think you overstate this. The Research Lab cannot be damaged so you can never remove Blue from the human skillset, and even if you could SO many humans draw Blue or Yellow (for Consolidate Power) that it's only the loss of a character in general that matters here, not the loss of support. I'd put this at "no more or less likely to cause a difference than any other character."

aammondd wrote:
Quite simply the humans do not have the resources for a prolonged fight and eventually a hole will open up for the win.


Just as true of unrevealed Cylons with CFB as with revealed ones IME.

aammondd wrote:
As I said at the beginning this strategy turns the game of BSG into something akin to a game of Pandemic and may cause a measure of dissatisfaction with the game for both sides but I wanted to point out the options available now. Just as the humans game has changed with the new components the cylons can and has as well. Like it or not its now a very viable option.


It is indeed a viable option. And there are times I'd absolutely agree with it, as well as times I'd disagree. But you knew that.
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For the "chooses" they are more often than not concensus decisions if you are going to remain hidden long. And both options have their advantaged often the discard options results in a failed check that at least equal to the other choice.

I will agree with your Red and Blue 0 bit but most any color the cylon draws is likely to have this happen the Red one isnt significant especially in non red checks destiny can burp on anyof these anyway.
In the off colored checks you can dump them for bluff value.
Any colors that the Cylons draw have their uses but the Red and Blue ones limit the humans ability to directly respond to the strategy.
Treachery is usually always good too so ...
Feeding the 0's back to the humans though is good.

On Support if they are having to rely on the research lab its significantly slower than having a support player and any wasted actions by the humans is a win for the cylons.

I know you dont agree as to the power but it is a significant shift from the power that a revealed cylon used to have and it does tend to have a cumulative effect more so that any other path.

Im just offering it up as an option that shouldnt be ignored though from an enjoyment standpoint staying hidden can be a lot more "fun". Think of it as a tool in your cylon belt. Use it a few times and you may find that its easier to hide in the future too.
 
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aammondd wrote:
For the "chooses" they are more often than not concensus decisions if you are going to remain hidden long. And both options have their advantaged often the discard options results in a failed check that at least equal to the other choice.


I suppose this really depends on your personality. But if you can make an argument to something YOU believe is the "better" choice as a hidden Cylon you can swing group consensus your way, which IS a fun and powerful Cylon way to play. Ultimately if you can get even one person to agree that you are right you (having the final say) can latch onto that person's agreement as justification.

Which I guess comes down to what kind of game you play. You're advocating something that (as you say) is a change to the fundamental gameplay. If you're a Cylon who can't hide (maybe you have a tell that the others can read or whatever) then the CFB gives you as powerful an option as if you had not revealed; but if you are good at playing the group, then you have still got the tools because the CFB still helps you. More in a moment on that.

aammondd wrote:
I will agree with your Red and Blue 0 bit but most any color the cylon draws is likely to have this happen the Red one isnt significant especially in non red checks destiny can burp on anyof these anyway.
In the off colored checks you can dump them for bluff value.
Any colors that the Cylons draw have their uses but the Red and Blue ones limit the humans ability to directly respond to the strategy.
Treachery is usually always good too so ...
Feeding the 0's back to the humans though is good.


You really have so few chances to draw cards as a a Cylon that what you do there pales in comparison to the CFB itself if that's the way you're attacking them. There's little point in drawing Y/G/P since those are in so many checks, so most Cylons draw two from Tr/R/B (depending on the presence or absence of Pegasus) because those are most likely detrimental to skill checks. And I'm fine with those having the weakest 0-cost cards for Cylons, because it means that you should as a Cylon choose your path: either you're drawing colors to hurt their checks or you're drawing for effect (to get the 0's for you or the 6's out of their hands).

aammondd wrote:
On Support if they are having to rely on the research lab its significantly slower than having a support player and any wasted actions by the humans is a win for the cylons.


Please note that I said that the Lab is a last resort. So many characters draw Blue and Yellow that the removal of one person drawing Blue is not going to be any more game changing IMO than the removal of any other person. It's the loss of a "human" draw: no more, no less.

aammondd wrote:
I know you dont agree as to the power but it is a significant shift from the power that a revealed cylon used to have and it does tend to have a cumulative effect more so that any other path.

Im just offering it up as an option that shouldnt be ignored though from an enjoyment standpoint staying hidden can be a lot more "fun". Think of it as a tool in your cylon belt. Use it a few times and you may find that its easier to hide in the future too.


The CFB itself is a significant shift to the Cylons, revealed OR unrevealed. When we first started I thought that the CFB was just different, not necessarily more or less powerful (I may even have said as much on a thread here). I've come to believe that the CFB is a shift toward Cylon power (again, revealed or unrevealed): that its constant pressure is a stronger push than the random attacks were and that regardless of the status of the Cylons (revealed or unrevealed, starter or sleeper) the humans have a harder time of the game with the CFB option in play.

What that means is that I agree that revealing early is more powerful than it was before, but that I don't think that doing so as a blanket rule is any more or less likely to promote a Cylon win than any other strategy. Two early Cylons who play well will be devastating no matter where they are. There are absolutely games where your best play will be reveal early, but there will also be games where that will not be the option.

But yes, I do agree that it's a tool in your belt.
 
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I will note though that the CFB activations etc are much easier to manage with hidden cylons. There was an increase in Heavy Raider activations which in combo with the CFB/Cylon Fleet has made them more of a threat now.

You cant just jump away to give you time to deal with the centurian any longer.

Without a revealed cylon the pursuit track can be managed through tactics. With one the threat from the fleet is more urgent.
 
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jsciv wrote:

Here we agree. If I'm CAG I'm first-turn revealing. There's just no way to sandbag as CAG anymore (the "I have nothing to do in space" defense is gone and that means you have little choice but to help the humans), and as you say it pulls Piloting out, one of the strongest defenses against the CFB. If there IS an overpowered component to your strategy, this is where it shines.
I don't quite agree with this. Pilot sandbagging was always really obvious, because going into space was such an obviously weak play in most cases. Launch Scout a few times and bury whatever you find, hoard Max F while you play ignorant, throw red/blue into skill checks until you get caught... CFB might make revealing a little more attractive for pilots, but pilots didn't exactly come prepackaged with the Mission Impossible soundtrack to begin with, and the CAG Chooses crises and CAG powers at least add some pre-reveal juice to the pilot toolset. Plus now that pilots are worth having, you might have more than one now, meaning that pilots spiking a check with red aren't necessarily outing themselves anymore.

Pilots' activities are the most transparent, and therefore they have a strong argument for the title of hardest hidden cylons to play, but that was always true.
 
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The problem trying to sandbag as a pilot is all they have to do to bring you back in is jump. What they are trying to do anyway. If you werent helping their solution is to work to jump. You arent really hurting them any more than not having a pilot at all. If they are playing with Pegasus then they have plenty of tools to deal with the cylon ships anyway.

The CFB board is much more effective and without a second pilot the CAG title is all but useless to them. Keeping it away from them is definitely not as powerful as being able to overwhelm them with raiders.Especially with them down a pilot.
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Something that seemed VERY effective in our one game was the cylons doing these two options every turn.

1)Roll and damage galactica. There were over 8 raiders, so it auto-damaged galactica.

2)Roll for advancing the pursuit or retreating the jump track. Either of these is BRUTAL.

We had 2 cylons pumping these two every turn, and the jump track just stalled out and they never moved while we piled damage markers on galactica faster than the support could remove...?

How can you counter this?
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slackerb wrote:
We had 2 cylons pumping these two every turn, and the jump track just stalled out and they never moved while we piled damage markers on galactica faster than the support could remove...?

How can you counter this?


There's a whole other thread about this, and there are some general tricks to try as humans. The open question in the other thread was if this strategy was broken. I still don't think it is, but that doesn't mean that it isn't effective. Sometimes the game really is out to get you and gives the Cylons exactly what they need. It's a strong play if both Cylons reveal early and can manage the pursuit track well enough to keep raiders on the board. It's not always the best path to Cylon victory IMO (which was the theory in the other thread), but there's no denying that it's strong if both Cylons are out from the start and neither has a title (or both feel that they're crap at hiding, or the game outs them or whatever).

Without more detail (what other options you were playing with, what characters were in the game, etc) I wouldn't know what specifically to suggest, though.
 
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I’m curious about this also. I will admit to not having a whole lot of experience with Exodus as yet, will be playing my second game using it’s components in an upcoming game night.

Aside from Pilots, how does Pegasus fit into this? Does it make any difference that fully revealed Cylons allow the humans more aggressive use of XOs (e.g., without the need to be cautious about not XO’ing a hidden Cylon) so someone parked on Pegasus CIC would be able to open up on Raiders with those more powerful guns?
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RedShark92 wrote:
I’m curious about this also. I will admit to not having a whole lot of experience with Exodus as yet, will be playing my second game using it’s components in an upcoming game night.

Aside from Pilots, how does Pegasus fit into this? Does it make any difference that fully revealed Cylons allow the humans more aggressive use of XOs (e.g., without the need to be cautious about not XO’ing a hidden Cylon) so someone parked on Pegasus CIC would be able to open up on Raiders with those more powerful guns?
The deck is more diluted, so XOs occur only 14 out of every 30 cards in the Leadership deck instead of 14 out of 21 cards. To have reliable XO-ing power, I would choose someone who draws at least 2 green (3 would be ideal, but that only falls to Adama and Cain) and/or hold on to XOs till the next turn.

The CAG card is nice, but merely a tool for the humans to use (or cylons to abuse). What needs to be done with the CFB are... trimming down # of raiders. This means you should probably hit up Main Batteries BEFORE jumping while you can. Otherwise, every time the cylon fleet gets transferred back and forth, there will be many ships if you don't destroy some of them. Typically, if it gets past sleeper phase and there are 10+ raiders on the MGB, it may be a good time to reveal.

.... also to escort civvies away. Pilots can do this a bit more effectively with CAG title card (and now non-pilots can do this too, even though it's only good as a absolute last resort), but spamming Command can offload some of the pilot's burden on that. You want to maintain a good #, b/c if too many raiders are out, but the last civvy got escorted, those raiders without vipers in the same sector will just shoot at Galactica.
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I'm going to have to agree with President revealing early, you are just not going to get XOs anymore since there is always going to be something more important. So you're only drawing quorum cards on your turn, and you are going to be expected to play them so that just means that you're helping the humans.

President chooses crisis cards aren't that crucial that you want to be presiding over them.

Admiral on the other hand is much better to be unrevealed for since the destination deck is still important, the admiral chooses crises are usually much tougher choices and in combination with the destination deck will make things harder for the humans.

Support I'd say requires a bit more nuance given the particulars of the game, but you shouldn't stay revealed for most of the game.

Granted I haven't played with the Ionian Nebula which I imagine would make things harder for the cylons.
 
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-4 food in 2 turns is pretty important for the President to preside over. Especially when Roslin gets a chance to pick from two crisis cards.

I got lucky and got 2 food shortages in a row once and picked the -4 food in total to kill the humans. Always keep your food high!
 
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