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Subject: Question Regarding Crusher Zendikon... rss

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Tyler L.

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Crusher Zendikon Reads:

"Enchant land

Enchanted land is a 4/2 red Beast creature with trample. It's still a land.

When enchanted land is put into a graveyard, return that card to it's owner's hand."

So, can I enchant my opponents land? And if so, does it go under my control or his?

If it goes under my control, could I tap it for mana? Could my opponent tap it to cast his own spells?

If it is under my control, does it untap during my opponents upkeep? Does it untap during my upkeep?
 
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Cyrus the Great
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You may put it on something under his control.

If you do, he controls the land. You control the enchantment. The enchantment doesn't say "you control enchanted land" like, say, Mind Control.

Basically, if you controlled it, you would treat it for all of the questions you asked as if you had played it. The exceptions would be when the land is put into a graveyard or if a card specifically refers to the land's "owner" (him) instead of its "controller" (you.)
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Tyler L.

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So... He would get control of the 4/2 beast?
 
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tsilver33 wrote:
So... He would get control of the 4/2 beast?


He would still control the land, which is also a 4/2 beast now. You might want to do it before a Day of Judgment to destroy his land. But besides that, you normally put it on your land.
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Tyler L.

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Ah, alright. Thanks guys.
 
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milegyenanevem wrote:
tsilver33 wrote:
So... He would get control of the 4/2 beast?


He would still control the land, which is also a 4/2 beast now. You might want to do it before a Day of Judgment to destroy his land. But besides that, you normally put it on your land.


But the land would merely go back to his hand. Proably not a great play if you're playing mass-removal since by that point,he'll probably have none in-hand and can just play it as his land-drop next turn.

I could definitely construct a corner-case where you might want to play it though (even if said case wouldn't come up more than 0.001% of the time).
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Eric O. LEBIGOT
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tsilver33 wrote:
Crusher Zendikon Reads:

"Enchant land

Enchanted land is a 4/2 red Beast creature with trample. It's still a land.

When enchanted land is put into a graveyard, return that card to it's owner's hand."
(…) could I tap it for mana? (…)
I believe that it cannot be tapped for mana anymore, because the enchanted land is equivalent to "Land Creature - Beast. This permanent is Red and has Trample. 4/2". In other words, I understand that Crusher Zendikon makes the enchanted Land only keep its type (Land) and replaces everything else, because of the use of "is" in the ability.

It would be nice to have a confirmation from a more seasoned player, though.
 
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Mathijs Booden
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lebigot wrote:
tsilver33 wrote:
Crusher Zendikon Reads:

"Enchant land

Enchanted land is a 4/2 red Beast creature with trample. It's still a land.

When enchanted land is put into a graveyard, return that card to it's owner's hand."
(…) could I tap it for mana? (…)
I believe that it cannot be tapped for mana anymore, because the enchanted land is equivalent to "Land Creature - Beast. This permanent is Red and has Trample. 4/2". In other words, I understand that Crusher Zendikon makes the enchanted Land only keep its type (Land) and replaces everything else, because of the use of "is" in the ability.

It would be nice to have a confirmation from a more seasoned player, though.


The enchanted land still has all the abilities and types it already had. So for example if it had the type Mountain, it can still be tapped for red mana, as that's an ability that any permanent with type Mountain has by definition. Or if it had the ability to tap for any colour of mana, it still has that ability.
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Eric O. LEBIGOT
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Appeal to Reason wrote:
lebigot wrote:
tsilver33 wrote:
Crusher Zendikon Reads:

"Enchant land

Enchanted land is a 4/2 red Beast creature with trample. It's still a land.

When enchanted land is put into a graveyard, return that card to it's owner's hand."
(…) could I tap it for mana? (…)
I believe that it cannot be tapped for mana anymore, because the enchanted land is equivalent to "Land Creature - Beast. This permanent is Red and has Trample. 4/2". In other words, I understand that Crusher Zendikon makes the enchanted Land only keep its type (Land) and replaces everything else, because of the use of "is" in the ability.

It would be nice to have a confirmation from a more seasoned player, though.


The enchanted land still has all the abilities and types it already had. So for example if it had the type Mountain, it can still be tapped for red mana, as that's an ability that any permanent with type Mountain has by definition. Or if it had the ability to tap for any colour of mana, it still has that ability.
Thank you for your input. I just found a rule that seems to contradict this, but that I guess does not apply here:
Quote:
204.1a. (…) when an effect sets one or more of an object's subtypes, the new subtype(s) replaces any existing subtypes from the appropriate set (creature types, land types, artifact types, enchantment types, planeswalker types, or spell types). (…)
In fact, for instance in the case of a Mountain, I initially gathered that "Enchanted land is a (…) Beast" replaced the Land subtype, so that the Land was not a Mountain anymore, and therefore lost its intrinsic mana generating ability.

But I now guess that "is a red Beast" should be understood as "in addition to its current subtypes", so that the above rule does not actually apply, no? The official rulings for a card like Awakener Druid in fact imply that the abilities of the enchanted land remain… Is this the correct interpretation? The relevant rule would be
Quote:
204.1b. Some effects change an object's card type, supertype, or subtype but specify that the object retains a prior card type, supertype, or subtype. In such cases, all the object's prior card types, supertypes, and subtypes are retained. This rule applies to effects that use the phrase "in addition to its types" or that state that something is "still a [type, supertype, or subtype]." Some effects state that an object becomes an "artifact creature"; these effects also allow the object to retain all of its prior card types and subtypes.
Is this it? i.e., "is still a Land" implies that all its subtypes are also kept, including Mountain, for instance, which guarantees that the mana generating ability of Mountains is still available.
 
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Mathijs Booden
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'It's still a land'. That's not just reminder text, it's rules text. So rule 204.1b applies.
It it didn't say that 'it's still a land' then weird things would happen. For one the enchantment would have to read something like 'Enchant permanent, as this enters the battlefield, choose target land, when this enters the battlefied, attach it to the chosen land. Enchanted permanent is a 4/2 red beast creature with trample (it's not a land anymore)' or something to that effect.
Anyone please correct me if I'm off the mark here.
 
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Cyrus the Great
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It is both a land and a creature for all purposes, so you can tap it for mana, attack and block with it, kill it with Doom Blade or Demolish, etc.
 
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Adam Ruprecht
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lebigot wrote:

Quote:
204.1a. (…) when an effect sets one or more of an object's subtypes, the new subtype(s) replaces any existing subtypes from the appropriate set (creature types, land types, artifact types, enchantment types, planeswalker types, or spell types). (…)
In fact, for instance in the case of a Mountain, I initially gathered that "Enchanted land is a (…) Beast" replaced the Land subtype, so that the Land was not a Mountain anymore, and therefore lost its intrinsic mana generating ability.

But I now guess that "is a red Beast" should be understood as "in addition to its current subtypes", so that the above rule does not actually apply, no? The official rulings for a card like Awakener Druid in fact imply that the abilities of the enchanted land remain… Is this the correct interpretation?


'Is still a land' lets it continue to be a land at all; the key part of this rule for these purposes is 'from the appropriate set'. Beast is not a land type, so it won't overwrite the Mountainness. However, if the enchanted land already had another creature type - let's say it was a Dryad Arbor - that creature type would be overwritten. You'd have a 4/2 trampling red Beast Forest that was no longer a dryad.
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Eric O. LEBIGOT
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rupes wrote:
lebigot wrote:

Quote:
204.1a. (…) when an effect sets one or more of an object's subtypes, the new subtype(s) replaces any existing subtypes from the appropriate set (creature types, land types, artifact types, enchantment types, planeswalker types, or spell types). (…)
In fact, for instance in the case of a Mountain, I initially gathered that "Enchanted land is a (…) Beast" replaced the Land subtype, so that the Land was not a Mountain anymore, and therefore lost its intrinsic mana generating ability.

But I now guess that "is a red Beast" should be understood as "in addition to its current subtypes", so that the above rule does not actually apply, no? The official rulings for a card like Awakener Druid in fact imply that the abilities of the enchanted land remain… Is this the correct interpretation?


'Is still a land' lets it continue to be a land at all; the key part of this rule for these purposes is 'from the appropriate set'. Beast is not a land type, so it won't overwrite the Mountainness. However, if the enchanted land already had another creature type - let's say it was a Dryad Arbor - that creature type would be overwritten. You'd have a 4/2 trampling red Beast Forest that was no longer a dryad.
Good point! I had understood that the "appropriate set" was Land, instead of Creature, so that the Mountain subtype was replaced. shake I can see why you're right, now.
 
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