Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
5 Posts

Cosmic Encounter: Cosmic Conflict» Forums » Rules

Subject: Confused about Invader rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Just a Bill
United States
Norfolk
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
No, I said "oh, brother," not "go hover."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Some head-scratchers here:

1. The text says the interrupted player receives "another" encounter. This suggests that the earlier encounter is not suspended and resumed, or even stopped and started over again, but rather is actually canceled and replaced with an additional (subsequent) encounter.

What is not clear is whether this "another" encounter counts against the player's normal limit of two. In other words, if the player's first encounter was canceled by an Invasion! card and he then has "another" (second) encounter which he wins, is he then allowed a third encounter? Also, is the rule about getting a tech in lieu of your second encounter specially modified for the player interrupted by Invader to let him get a tech on his third encounter?

Seems like it would have been better to say "the player who drew it during his or her turn starts his or her encounter over again" to keep the encounter number the same and eliminate these rules questions as well as future problems with effects that count encounters. Does anybody think this was the intent?

2. The use portion of the power is super weird:

"As a main player, after an Invasion! destiny card or destiny card of your player color is drawn, you may use this power to discard your entire hand and draw a new hand of eight cards before having your extra encounter."

When you (as Invader) or another player draws your normal color, how exactly do you draw a new hand "before having your extra encounter" when there is no extra encounter?

Am I missing something here, or should this have simply said "you may use this power to immediately discard your hand and draw a new one"?

Or do you think this power used to (or was still intended to) give Invader an interruptory encounter when somebody else draws his color?

3. When an Invasion! card comes up, how do you use this power "as a main player" to draw a hand "before your extra encounter" when you can't even be a main player before your extra encounter? Somebody else is the offense and the defense hasn't been determined yet. The very moment you become a main player, it isn't "before your extra encounter" any more; that encounter is already underway.

I've read this power over and over and just can't seem to make much sense out of this part.

What icons are on the alien sheet?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jefferson Krogh
United States
San Leandro
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't have the alien sheet handy, but we've played this one twice so far, so it's fairly fresh in my mind.

1. The only thing that made sense to us was that the Invader's special encounter takes place during the Destiny phase of the original player's encounter. So the original player simply resumes his original encounter afterwards by flipping another Destiny card.

We were probably wrong on that, but it seemed to me that the original player would get an extra Regroup if he started another fresh encounter. At the time, I couldn't quite wrap my head around that. Maybe the original player was indeed meant to get that "bonus" Regroup as consolation for being so rudely interrupted?

We did think that the intent was that the original player doesn't get more than two encounters as a result of the Invasion Destiny card. Most likely, the wording is to ensure the original player doesn't lose an encounter because the Invader "used it up" or something.

2. I agree with you entirely; the card should have read as you suggested.

3. If I'm not mistaken, your suggested rewording of that part of the Invader power would address that part as well. Remember that as soon as the Invasion! card is drawn, Invader becomes the offense, and is thus a main player.

I'll be surprised if this wording isn't clarified in the next FAQ. It's going to confuse everybody.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Just a Bill
United States
Norfolk
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
No, I said "oh, brother," not "go hover."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Kobold Curry Chef wrote:
Most likely, the wording is to ensure the original player doesn't lose an encounter because the Invader "used it up" or something.

Ironically, it accomplishes the exact opposite. The poor guy's first encounter becomes his second and he doesn't get an actual second useful encounter because now it would be his third.

Kobold Curry Chef wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, your suggested rewording of that part of the Invader power would address that part as well. Remember that as soon as the Invasion! card is drawn, Invader becomes the offense, and is thus a main player.

Agreed. This seems so simple and obvious that it's driving me crazy trying to figure out why they made it so complex (and broken).

Maybe the part about drawing your regular color was added on late in the development process (after playtesting?) and somebody just inserted it into the text without realizing they were breaking it.

Kobold Curry Chef wrote:
It's going to confuse everybody.

Only until the Conflict FAQ comes out in 2012.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew Cary
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
I think you are inferring an interrupt mechanic to a game that doesn't really have one. Cosmic may be the inspiration for a lot of CCGs, but CCG logic doesn't really apply to it.

Kobald Curry Chief's reading of the rules is consistent with how I saw it play tested. You don't leave a turn "suspended" between the destiny and launch phases, you abandon that turn and do it over once Invader has completed his actions.

My understanding for Invader "Immediately" drawing new cards upon becoming main player is that he Isn't getting a turn, just an encounter. As he is only getting an encounter didn't get a Start of Turn phase, he just lept immediately into his encounter. If he doesn't have any encounter cards his encounter is immediately over. He needs to be able to discard & redraw before his encounter ends. This is not to say that is the only time he can discard & redraw, being able to redraw is part of his power. This just prevents his turn from ending before he can try.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Just a Bill
United States
Norfolk
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
No, I said "oh, brother," not "go hover."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Kobold Curry Chef wrote:
1. The only thing that made sense to us was that the Invader's special encounter takes place during the Destiny phase of the original player's encounter. So the original player simply resumes his original encounter afterwards by flipping another Destiny card.
Jhamin wrote:
Kobald Curry Chief's reading of the rules is consistent with how I saw it play tested. You don't leave a turn "suspended" between the destiny and launch phases, you abandon that turn and do it over once Invader has completed his actions.

I don't think you two are saying the same thing.

Jhamin wrote:
My understanding for Invader "Immediately" drawing new cards upon becoming main player is that he Isn't getting a turn, just an encounter. As he is only getting an encounter didn't get a Start of Turn phase, he just lept immediately into his encounter. If he doesn't have any encounter cards his encounter is immediately over. He needs to be able to discard & redraw before his encounter ends. This is not to say that is the only time he can discard & redraw, being able to redraw is part of his power. This just prevents his turn from ending before he can try.

I think we understand all that, but it doesn't seem germane to the question (nobody is confused about why he needs a new hand).

The card doesn't actually say "immediately" but Jefferson and I are arguing that it should.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.