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Summoner Wars: Guild Dwarves vs Cave Goblins» Forums » Rules

Subject: Changes to Thorkur....why? rss

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James Cartwright
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I've just downloaded and read the FAQ 1.2 and I don't understand why such brutal changes have been made to this card. As far as I can see there's now nothing 'Special' about his ability at all.

new errated version -

MAGIC BARRIER
Once per turn, whenever 1 or more Wound Markers would be placed on this card, you may spend 1 Magic Point to prevent 1 of those Wound Markers from being placed on this card.

---------------

I could understand adding just the 'Once per turn' rule or maybe even adding spend 2 magic cards to cancel 1 point. This full new change to me seems very harsh.

With the original I not only had to spend 6 magic to bring him out but if I wanted to keep him alive when getting swarmed I had to seriously think about if I wanted to spend 4 magic, which is alot in one go. This is espcially true if you looking to summon something next turn or need to get rid of a freeze or have been magic drained. I've also had a few games where he's never managed to be summoned at all, being either at the very bottom of the deck or I've been short on magic.

I think I'll stick with the wording on the original card for now as we have yet to have a problem with this card the way it was written.
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Panagiotis Zinoviadis
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There is the Turbo Thorkur style of play with the old wording of his ability. It goes like this.

a. discard all your hand tiil you get Thorkur
b. Summon Thorkur
c. Spent all your discarder cards to heal thorkur.

Your opponent will not get magic from you since you will not have other units for him to kill.

Your Magic Drains will always succeed.

Your walls will become magic.

You will kill him in the long run unless he is playing a faction with a ranged Summoner but still you can overcome this.

Something like this anyway.

Cheers!



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Mark Chaplin
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I never had a problem with the card, but it was the strongest special ability by a good mile, I think.

However, it never annoyed me half as much as the Orc "Fury" ability continues to do so.



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James Cartwright
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Not heard of that style of playing Thorkur, just seems 'spammy' and a 'cheesy' way of playing Summoner Wars to me and not in the spirit of the game.

Yeah, the 'Fury' ability really annoys me as well. I'm considering house ruling the 'Fury' ability to 'only if you role a hit can you use the fury ability'.

The latest one that I've found annoying is the Orc 'Thwarters' ability. When they swarm champions there very difficult to kill.

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Wind Lane
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Thorkur gets unbelievably brutal in a four player game. Your partner can dump cards into your magic pile - instant infinite battery. The errata was the right choice.
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Fede Miguez
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what? Fury is the best thing this game has!

Anyway, the nerf was mostly focused for tournament play, so as to not degenerate it. By all means use the cards as you please, the nerf was done mostly so as to keep the game fun and avoiding have a predominant strategy. FWIW, before the change was announced i argued it was not as broken because i had success fighting against it (and people fighting against me using it).
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James Cartwright
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Never played a four player game, only ever played Summoner wars as a 2 player game, so never had that problem with Thorkur.

A simple swarm strategy is one we have found to be most effective against Thorkur, that coupled with magic drain or freeze usually means he dies quite quickly.
 
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Patrik Eden
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I much prefer the new Thorkur.

The extreme-life Thorkur was a bit too much for the theme imo, and though not always successful, the strategy became dominant.

Furthermore, you would always take 3 wounds on Thorkur, and then decide if you wanted to keep him alive by magic. Now, on his early hits, you have to decide if you want to spend magic or not - if the next attack in the same turn kills him, that magic was wasted. That is the kind of odds calculation decision that fits the game spirit perfectly.


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James Sitz
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Rindel wrote:
Not heard of that style of playing Thorkur, just seems 'spammy' and a 'cheesy' way of playing Summoner Wars to me and not in the spirit of the game.


Which is precisely why it was changed.

When it worked (which was rather often), it wasn't fun and narrowed the focus of the game, and even made the rest of the cards in your deck not matter as much. Coupled with the 4 catch-ups in the GD deck and the ability to play Besiege the Walls more quickly by burning through your deck at that rate, it was a very powerful and simple strategy.

After the change, the Guild Dwarves and the new Thorkur are still good. He was just insanely good before.

Rindel wrote:
A simple swarm strategy is one we have found to be most effective against Thorkur, that coupled with magic drain or freeze usually means he dies quite quickly.


Summoning a single Defender and using T's range can prevent swarms from working. Kill commons when possible, but in general, try to annihilate their walls and champions first.
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Scott Everts
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Based on the FAQ, looks like we need to order something from the publisher to get the replacement? Or is there another way? Maybe send a SASE?
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Cory Bullock
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ScottE wrote:
Based on the FAQ, looks like we need to order something from the publisher to get the replacement? Or is there another way? Maybe send a SASE?


http://www.plaidhatgames.com/product9.html

You can also order one right there (for the cost of S&H). However, you'll also get one if you make another order from PHG, which is probably the best way to go.
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Bryan Stout
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darkbladecb wrote:
ScottE wrote:
Based on the FAQ, looks like we need to order something from the publisher to get the replacement? Or is there another way? Maybe send a SASE?


http://www.plaidhatgames.com/product9.html

You can also order one right there (for the cost of S&H). However, you'll also get one if you make another order from PHG, which is probably the best way to go.

Also, you can try asking your FLGS if they'll order it for you from Plaid Hat Games, to save you postage.
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LSU LSU
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Rules question: what does "once per turn" mean? Does it mean the dwarf player can play one magic to heal one wound only on his turn? Can he do it on his opponents turn? Lets say Thorkur has 0 wounds and is being attacked by orcs who have a potential to get 6 wounds. If they get 4 hits - can the dwarf player immediately pay one to heal? If the first attack gets 3 hits - can the dwarf player pay to heal 1 before the second orc attack? Can he wait to see if the Orc attack is successful?

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Paul DeStefano
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Thorkur got married.

Now he's just not the same.
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Fede Miguez
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LSUtigers wrote:
Rules question: what does "once per turn" mean? Does it mean the dwarf player can play one magic to heal one wound only on his turn? Can he do it on his opponents turn? Lets say Thorkur has 0 wounds and is being attacked by orcs who have a potential to get 6 wounds. If they get 4 hits - can the dwarf player immediately pay one to heal? If the first attack gets 3 hits - can the dwarf player pay to heal 1 before the second orc attack? Can he wait to see if the Orc attack is successful?

As i understand it, he may only activate it once per attack phase. So if 3 attacks are focused on Thorkur, he can only use it for 1 wound dealt by one of those attacks.
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James Sitz
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It's once per turn. The PE can still get him to use up his barrier during the Event Phase.

If you hit him with your own Gror you could protect him on your own turn as well.
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Rindel wrote:
Never played a four player game, only ever played Summoner wars as a 2 player game, so never had that problem with Thorkur.

A simple swarm strategy is one we have found to be most effective against Thorkur, that coupled with magic drain or freeze usually means he dies quite quickly.


Against old Thorkur? Freeze does... something. Magic Drain should never work, if your opponent is playing the turbo strategy. Most of the time they'll be killing their own units to be sure of that/add to Thorkur's invincibility. Swarm strategies do nothing more than any other strategy against him, since you could remove damage however you like. Your opponent shouldn't really let you swarm him either, seeing as he shouldn't be giving you enough mana to get much on the field (except Goblins of course). Even then, he only gets surrounded if your opponent lets him, since he's got a solid attack at range.

The Thorkur change was definitely warranted as far as I'm concerned.
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Seth Trammell
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I would also have reduced his magic cost, by one or maybe even two, he's like half as powerful, why not make him cost less?
 
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James Sitz
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Sethy295 wrote:
I would also have reduced his magic cost, by one or maybe even two, he's like half as powerful, why not make him cost less?


3/4 for 6 is still a fine stat line for a ranged unit.
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Seth Trammell
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Thats true...
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Bill Jones
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darkbladecb wrote:
ScottE wrote:
Based on the FAQ, looks like we need to order something from the publisher to get the replacement? Or is there another way? Maybe send a SASE?


http://www.plaidhatgames.com/product9.html

You can also order one right there (for the cost of S&H). However, you'll also get one if you make another order from PHG, which is probably the best way to go.


I would think they should send the card for free if you sent a SASE. Some printings of Space Alert had two incorrect cards, and simply by sending an email to Czech Games, they would send the replacement cards free (in my case, from the Czech Republic to the USA).

In the case of Summoner Wars, I have spent a total of $100 on two starter packs, two faction decks, and two premium boards. But since I bought this from my FLGS, I have to pay $4 more to get 1 replacement card? I find it hard to believe that they're charging almost half the price of an entire faction deck for one replacement card, when it's their error in the first place...

Is anyone else with me on this one?
 
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Colby Dauch
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I have changed the cost to ship Thorkur. I will start eating the fulfillment cost, you now only pay postage. Additionally you still get the card free with any sized order from PlaidHatGames.com and any FLGS can contact me and request replacement Thorkurs and Promo cards for their store to giveaway to Summoner Wars customers.
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wjones14 wrote:
In the case of Summoner Wars, I have spent a total of $100 on two starter packs, two faction decks, and two premium boards. But since I bought this from my FLGS, I have to pay $4 more to get 1 replacement card? I find it hard to believe that they're charging almost half the price of an entire faction deck for one replacement card, when it's their error in the first place...

Is anyone else with me on this one?

No. Print the damn faq and stop whining. Most companies don't even offer replacement cards because of errata, so I think this is very generous as it stands. The sense of entitlement around here is just over the top sometimes.
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Bill Jones
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ScottB wrote:
wjones14 wrote:
In the case of Summoner Wars, I have spent a total of $100 on two starter packs, two faction decks, and two premium boards. But since I bought this from my FLGS, I have to pay $4 more to get 1 replacement card? I find it hard to believe that they're charging almost half the price of an entire faction deck for one replacement card, when it's their error in the first place...

Is anyone else with me on this one?

No. Print the damn faq and stop whining. Most companies don't even offer replacement cards because of errata, so I think this is very generous as it stands. The sense of entitlement around here is just over the top sometimes.


Wow, such a reaction! Sorry that my post bothered you so much. What a supportive community...

I'm just glad that Colby runs the business and not you. He responded to my concern in a professional manner and has decided to change his policy.
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Bill Jones
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screamingtruth wrote:
I have changed the cost to ship Thorkur. I will start eating the fulfillment cost, you now only pay postage. Additionally you still get the card free with any sized order from PlaidHatGames.com and any FLGS can contact me and request replacement Thorkurs and Promo cards for their store to giveaway to Summoner Wars customers.


That's awesome Colby! I think it's the right thing to do, it's great to see that you are personally involved, and I have no doubt this will only improve your reputation here. Thank you!

I disagree with the other poster who replied saying that I should just suck it up because most companies don't bother replacing missing/broken/incorrect pieces. My experience has been the exact opposite -- I already mentioned that Czech Games sent me two free replacement cards for Space Alert, across continents no less, at no charge. Matagot also sent me some free replacement parts for my copy of Cyclades which had a couple broken ships. I've also read numerous other forums here on the Geek where members have contacted different game companies successfully for free replacement parts. In fact, I don't recall ANY people saying that a manufacturer refused to replace defective game parts.
 
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